Ford Broadcasts, 1965-1966 — Page 37637

The original documents are located in Box D37, folder “Ford Broadcasts, 1965-1966” of the Ford Congressional Papers: Press Secretary and Speech File at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library. Copyright Notice The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. The Council donated to the United States of America his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections. Works prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public domain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to remain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid copyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library. Mr. JSMe H. Quello Station Mmapr WJR Fiaher hUd1q Datro1 t, Mloh1gaa 48201 .o. .. Jill, '· H~ StiSPk'NSE ·~ ( TILLO, James H.) Re: 9roading 1JR June 20, 1965 ~ Thanks tor TOV requeat to ... a llf..td.rate report for WJR '• "Your GoYel"IIDIIlt• bro.-ut Mriea. I will ake arrmpNnia vltb Miee ~rn1ce lfUit ot Cle_. Channel Broadoaet!.Dg Service 1n Wuh1Dctoa, when she \ntaote •· WC'JIIIIat pereoDal. regarclll. \ ,..... EK~o~$5 Sinoere]T, .. , Digitized from Box D37 of The Ford Congressional Papers: Press Secretary and Speech File at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library WJR THE GOODWILL STATION FISHER BUILDING • DETROIT, MICHIGAN 48202 JAMES H. QUELLO ~TATION MANAGER April Congressman Gerald R . Ford House Office Building Washington 25, D .C. Dear Jerry: WJR would li~e to resume the "Your Govern- ment" broadcast series, and we would li~e a 13j-minute report from you to the people of Michigan. Miss Bernice Hase, of the Clear Channel Broadcasting Service in Washing- ton, will contact your office to arrange for the broadcast, scheduled 9:15-9:30 PM Sunday, June 20th. == As in the past, we plan to alternate the two Michigan Senators on the first Sunday of each month; alternate a Democratic and Republican Representative in the middle wee~s of each month and schedule a monthly report from the Governor on the last Sunday of the month. We ~now the people of Michigan will be inte- rested in these regular monthly reports, and we trust the broadcasts will provide a useful vehicle for direct expression of your opinions in your own words. Remember, too, that our newsroom is always inte- rested in timely news developments that may come from your office. Kindest regards, JHQ/dp A DIVISION OF CAPITAL. CITIES BROADCASTING CORPORATION .. .. , P r "tour nt• b:roadoan ...s.. v llttl"ol\ tar airllll Jae ao, U6S !0 II !AJIID D _, OJrJDI .m. JS ~ J!llnne~ Coach lernte lt.er.n'• •• •• • ..-.... ,..._. tbd talle to see>re OD iltelllgm dnce 1929 a.t had DDt defeated tlla Volnrt.M8 , l ta baet to the wall dttrlBg t ' I ....... I t f ~ • l li 5 ! lfll i~ t I .. ' f c I 0 I .. " II <' .., t "' ... It ( ,. I ' a -" f ; I ;, I .. .; q :t-t5 1 ~ 1 [r ~! ... ~ . I i ~ r r";r ~ ~ = t ! "r~ l ~ f 1 r i I ' ' ~~ • li ;' , :+fl j I i ~ ~li : f ~ ~r! r . ~ : .t' ~ . ~ V"' 1 ' • ~ i ; I , 8 e ~ I .. f\ a f I r :t. ! I l ~ - i I ~ ! ! I I • ,. i ~ e a I I I- I f r I i j r H s. c+ fr • f ~ ~ II IS i ~ l -: ! li :C t 8 I r • ~ . . I I i i i ! I f .. ~ i ~ ti I 1 -... I ~ I I .. ,; ·a i' r: 8 1 .. ~ f ; ' ~ 1 r; ! I f a • ~ f H ~ ~ : I i H n ~ 1 i 1 • ~ ' I ; i ~ ~ I t- 1 Q 1 ~ i r · ... I lfj t r • - : I f i t: ~ t i s: i i i i i t ; i I f 4 i I 1 ( 8 ( l • ' i :t f ~ I f • • ' ! t\ • : ... f I I li = I , , ~ I i 1 1 I J · f I f t .. I a .. 1 • P. • t .IJ li r i = ; ' ! 1 J ~ r J I: ' ' i I ! f I I i f - I I • I 5 i . ' . . • C+ I • .. . . WJR . . \Ike ott his Santa Clau nl\. •••• as aUJ.'-7 s n ng lilr;Jitockete, a .a\ re DC ~ ~I at'-~~ I, ~ Gc..._ tp,_,_ ~,.,_,.);(.,.. ~7~ . .n o gh t 1d t far baa beea iven •Vo~J; CoDp'M8tonel. nppoft 1n bla c ons a& t Co un gre slon, I ncei"Ded t tbl A in1· tratlo1 ' /~~~~~ s tailed to tlke firll •teJ!e toward • a~tla& t •l~ioft.. b Caba. ~-~~~~· . 'be l.dB'nlnratloa hu taUed to ear17 out tbe OJ'l&lnal~an --1Z. &,_ /) . eo..msa 1a Cuba vhteh John r. '-aed, ~•c:t. 2l' ~4\. ~ ··~-~ t r.r-~ ~ .....;.~ '"'"'4::!-~ ~t...i. ~~~a....-. f..... tJ tho U60 ~Sal .....,.S.aa •d a\ b t.!a of tt. Cobc ~ ~ onau, b late lrweldellt luute4 .., ~ ot elllorie\ ,_ ,_ .;_ ~ ~ fidel C•tro'e .,_ai.J'I pooaad far c-t-Be aalled far _.t ot ~ ~ ~ '~ fNe Cablla torou both luide .., ov.tllf.de ot tba\ o-..;, • .aa. be ~ ''. "iiiiii• 111 eDd tha export ot CoiiiiiDt • troll tba nratqto ~ vbloh b almet vlthlll elPt ot ..... eborellao. r ~ H ~ 7 'ZI.... j;k (i.-4 .. 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I\ prnwN a dupa-pl-... Ooecre•• 8hould ftaoll ita cta!ou oa1T att. ......,_ .......... tbwall\ ad ;!z:;S ~ ..._ ... ' .. wa IIOA OOA8t -... U. nstirut o aDd the law. Justic hanttnrter also satd--l'la title aitua\t.on• ae lD others of like 1 .:a."'''""a.£. tr,r relief does DOt belcmg heN. J.ppnlmst be u&t to into d 1 e1 ca:n~ 11111-tant ela tome.• ,11l tal king vt th you on thte WJR ~adean, I haTS spelled et.tt the al ce of • r in the PNNilt CoDeN•• erxecmtlft trtd jadtetal , J ttce an , eiYleallr ••••·•• atl1tla\ ehctoratAI. I enconr each of · mre Jmewledpble Oil all part o and candl ate 1 we ahould ~ qree that """ and vOMD wiMt . .. \bat a stroDg two wUl. s ·fi:ve, pr sper• &rOW aDd lp t.11u ... 1D orld to aooep\ t.bab- rooponslbUi t1 s 1n the soc ot tree DatlODIIe 1lh1ch is t or rand a Jd.DcriV 1a eo..........-I belJ.aft w -.t ad tnat o ... thl a.ricaa pe~. ·~·~ ....... t ... ,. ... ••'-"" ~-\ \ • ., ... ·_ ' .,. •...W. tldll NIJift• ad I ...... ta. WWCl ....... I -.. brt.Jac a better bel•noe to Ooepreae ad ntala a et.roac ....,....., ..v•tea. vblch Ia dlleperate]¥ -ded to .alntala oar ~-aac1 w .Ue 1ib1a a bet.ter ••s... tt.ake tor. Un=•• I a hlpJIT to baYe tada epportaDlt, te 8pltlk wltb thll va 11n.111e •'"-• I I I , :ror "Your Government" broadcast series WJR Detroit tor airing June 20 1 l96S '!0 Bl !APD D 13i ainutes When I was a member ot a Universitl" ot Michigan .f'ootball team we plqed one particular game I recall often these dqs. We had traveled from Ann Arbor to 11eet the Gophers ot the Univeraity" of Minnesota. Coach Bernie Bierman's tea was an unbeaten powerhouse that season, yet was goiDg into the game with a unique record. Minnesota had tail.e d to score on ~chigan since 1929 and bad uot defeated the Wolverines at hoJJB since 1892 • Football tans may recall what happened that d81' in MeJaOrial Stadiwa. I'll never .f'orget it. In tact, I mJJ7 still carry a taw 1l111Ps-and soma e_,tional bruises-troa November 3rd, 1934, When we spent the atternoon trring to outpl.q M:l.nnesota' s famous All-Alllerican trio • • -Bevan, Larson and Sportswri tars bad SOE kind words to describe our efforts. One praised ourc8tense pl81' and told how John Regeczi's punting kept Minnesota with its back to the vall during the first halt. When the tiDal gun sounded• a jiDX or hl years was broken-Michigan vas defeated 34 to 1. Another sportswriter said it Michigan's line replaceJJBnts had beeD more pleDiiitul., the score llight have been lower. Perhaps, the Wolverines might have von the game. ' WJR bDDadcast p~e 2 As leader of the Bepablican llinority in tbe House of liepresentati'fts- I compare our politica1]¥-ov.tmmbered group with the Michigan teaa that plqad Minnesota ••••• we have the spirit and enthusiaa. but we lack power and strength in IIWibera. Further c011par1Dg the 89th Congress vi th 1'ootba11 1 we are three-quarters way tlrough the season and our record could be better. The legislatbe score is impressive one vq, however--news laws have been passed with historic speed. But, I question whether the overa11 performance has been of .lll-Jaericm class. The record is long on quantitT and short on qualiV• I do not intend to spend this tiae with you harpooni.Dg JV Democratic trien:is or President; Johnson and his Adlllinistration, except to point out what I beliwve are some weak:Dasses in govermnent at this tt.. But 1'1rst, I emphasize that the Congress put aside political ditferencas , to strengtban our llation' s fight agaiut ColiMUDist aggression-the threat to i'reeda. - Although soll9 of the President 1 s own political a11pire d1sseDted 1 Congress approved a $700 Jdllion expansion oi' tba .Uit&r7 budget. This action showed tJJa ..,rld that Alloricana ,::z;.;._bdng]T be1~ ~ decision to honor our foreign co.Ut..nta. It was, in af!'act, a public ~ ~ I 1 ~~ endorsement or the ~line the President has been taking. We cannot tum awq troa the !'act that toda;r America is fighting a worldwide war for liberty. True, it is still a cold war in certain plaees 0 At aDT .,_,nt, however, it could burst into global na.ak d._~ WJR BROAOOAST Page 3 The action ot Congress in supporting the President in South Viet lam poliey and llilitary measures so tar_ has other tar-reaching effects. In wartime, we have learned from experience, the American people cannot have both butter and guns ••• when Uncle Saa puts on his colllbat gear, be mu.st take ott his Santa Claus suit ••••• as llilitary spending slc;yrockets, we must retrench somewhere along the li.De • .blorica is a rich coantrT, bot the riches are not wil.ild.tedo It~ a dream or tha Communist world that sooner or later America would spend itself into bankruptcy ••••• In this crucial time, I am confident Americans are prepared to do the best the7 can in a financial wq--even it it means doing w1 thout. ll though the President so tar bas been given strong Congressional support in his actions against ColllllUDist aggression, I am concerned that the Administration , has failed to take firm steps toward ellt-rectiDg the situation in Cuba. 'J.'be Administration has taUed to carr,y out the original attack against Comnmism in Cuba which John F. lennect," dsanded. ~ing the 1960 Presidential campaign and at the time of the Cuban llissile crisis, the late President insisted on re110val ot all Soviet forces from Fidel Castro 1 s spawniDg ground far ColiiiiiUDisa. He called for support or free Cuban forces both inside and outside ot that country. And, be demanded •;--;' z m end to the export of ColiJIIUDi.sm from the strategic island, which is - almost within sight ot our shoreline. WJR BROAOOAST Page 4 A tew minutes ago I compared the 89th Congress with two football teau. It seems to me that lib the game I described involving the Wolveri.Des ot Ann Arbor and the Gophers ot Mi.Dneaota, the score Congress has Ede this year so tar would be somewhat different it the balance ot strength between the Republica and ~moerat sides had been JIOre enn. This is somethi.Dg I've been telling audiences maey places in our Bation, speaking as Minority Leader ot the House. la'blral.)Jr, when I speak at a Republican aeetiDg, I talk about wqs to strengthen our 111Bmberahip in the House and elsetlltere in goverDII8nt. 1aA I& .a -' a I wn 1 t bore the i)emocrats who are listening to this WJR broadcast with such information. However 1 I think all Aalricans should be concerned w1 th two •jor dangers that threaten the foundations ot our Democracy. Speaking in a DOn-partisan wq, I believe the dangers are the present i.Dbalance ot power in the legislative, executive and judicial branches--and the possibility that our strong two-party system could become a thing ot the paste When either political party controls Congress by a crushing majority, the traditional systea ot checks and balances, which is designed to protect the public interest, is endangered. The present. Congress is a good example ot illbalance, with the same p&rt7 that has an overwhelldng majori t;r in the House and Senate controlling the White House. ....ore- ~lnwillewt.JI!•eeslwk&H»·••··••al··-t.....CwsBEMM\Awa·••··H-.. ... , WJR BRO!.OOAS'l' PageS Tbe President has Yirt~ UDliaited resources tor vorkiDg his vill- a veritable ~ ot experts• authorities• researchers, propacandists and the like. He is also king pin ot the branch ot govermaant that e11plo,_ 21 Jdllion ~ ci viliaDI!I and controls the ~ ot 2 llillion 600 thousand :aili tal7 persoDDelo These two groupe have an ammal. payroll cost totall1D& $28 billion-and together tbe;y vUl spend •re than 127 billion tax dollars in fiscal 1966. 'l'his aweso11e power and the Yut apparatus• it used illproper]J", could •an the vitheri.Dg avq and .-rent~ the death ot the two-part;y s;ystea. So• observers have collp&Nd the work so tar ot the legislative branch- Congress---vith the House and Senate 1n 1111 1933 when FraDkliD ~. Roosevelt vas president. In a sense, this ay be trae. We have passed .ore legislation so tar this session than during a!J3' comparable period I can recall. However• quantit7 is DOt the SIJIB as qualiV'o lfor do new lava guarantee re•dies tor old or new probleu. It seem to me that a Congress ot better balance would have adopted /1'1 ~ better legislation at a ai:exer-• .ore deliberate pace. Critics have said Congress trequentl.T ll&kes haste slovl.7. However, the aet ot deliberate slowness is a safeguard against raciDg to the brink ot decision. It prevents a dangerous plunge. Congress should reach its decisions ODl7 alter adequate l'llaearch• thought md ~ discusion. , WJR BROAOOAS! page 6 Refiectimg on the W.ties aDd obligatioll8 ot the third branch ot govel'lllll!tnt-it can be said tbe Federal Judiciar,r's tunction is to interpret the Cout~tion and the laws. There is evidence that the -'udicial Branch is arbitrariq elbowiDg its wq to new positions ot authoriv, d.1sregard1Dg the wise suggestions ot judicial restraint Ede by the late Justice Felix Frankfurter and others. When the B,apre• Court ordered states to reapportion on the one-man, one-vote concept, Justice Frankfttrter in a dissenting opinion was critical ot tbe court asswling-in his words-•destructive]¥ novel judicial power.• Justice Frankturt.r also said-"in this situation, as in others ot like nature• appeal tor relief does not belong here. Appeal m.st be made to an 1n!orEd 1 civicall1' militant electorate.• While talking with you. on this WJR broadcast, I have spelled Ottt the threatening bbalance or power in the present Congress, executive and judicial branches of our gowl'DDI8Dt. To correct this situation, I urge .,re citizens to beco• part of vbat Jut:lce Frankfurter described as an intorad, civicallT "' ' Jdlitant electorate. I encourage each of YOll to beco• 110re knowledgable on all sides or leading issues and with all polit:lcal personalities. While we -.y not agree among ourselves as to own own choice of political parties and candidates, we should thorough]¥ agree that men and womn who activel3' work for a party and candidates of their choice are better c itiseu. ' WJR BROA:oc:ASf PAGE 7 Without sn.y indulgeme in partiaall8h1p, I am sure we can agree that a strong two-party qstell is bedrock assurance that our Lemocraey will surYiYe, prosper, ~and help otO,rs in the world to accept their responsibUities in the society of tree nations. Rw-it ;:you will allow 118 to coanent on the Republican Part7, which is out of power and a .tnority in Congress----I believe we .ust earn the confidence and trust ot the American people. B;r earning this respect..-...a.nd I stress the word •eana1Dg"--we can bring a better balance to Congress and retain a strong two-part)" s;:rstea, which is desperate:Q" needed to u.intain our De:.ocrac::r and to make this a better Hatioa. Thanks tor listening. I am happy to have this opportunity to speak with the WJR listening andience. I I I ' 1-minnte radio tape for Congressional Committee via phone June 29, 1965 The swift sword for freedom must strike mightier blows now--from the / air a1 d .from the sea in the Viet Nan war. 'fhtiy ••'t l>w 1' omk quie~ They must be unleashed to prevent a cost:cy-and possibly never-ending land war in the steaning jungles and swamps of that southeast asian count:ey. Republicans are against a massive ground war in Viet Nam. We know the pitfalls of being over-committed in large-scale jungle warfare ••• fighting under the rules of the eneli'\Y'. Exp•riezace smd legie pi'OW tbeR :1:8 a better WSJ' to i:JipNss-the • 8DUIL]IHII _. ~ .. £~d ba,fm:at:aH;y ~taa~ tho air with attacks on significant. ailit*ry targets. 9 .pd oa \Be •• with r . . t -a-11iw.i qttarant:t& bo llim' off *be fi~· Of •1 ttil that fattens the 8MIIT'S Power-hungr,y Communist leaders will dodge the ~gotiation table until they are convinced by stepped-up air attacks and a naval quarantine that the United States will stay in Viet Nam until peace with both honor and meaning is achieved. II II II ' Radio statement for GOP Congressional Committee Jan. 25 6 1966 The President' s proposed budget would mean Americans will pay more "' for everything• Under the program contemplated by the White House the cost of living would increase two percent. The budget from President Johnson threatens to make the lurking shadow of inflation a monster of reality• The Administration' s financial 7 1 II t • document tries to go in both directions at the same time. It calls for even more federal spending in dubious areas and ~gnores any sensible comer-cutting on non-essential domestic programs. - Republicans support all necessar,y funds for national securit,y. At the same time, Republicans insist on setting priorities at home without sacrificing - ~ the p~v~ needs of th~ople •••• ~l the people. --- II ' .. coat. of llri.Da voold IDcreaee two peroent.. The budpt frail Prealdent Jolmaon thftateu to ..a tbe lurldrac ahadow The jctwtnSatntion' a tlDaDolal doo ... nt tr1ea to eo 1D both dlreetlODa at the ••• tt.. It can. tor even .,re federal apendl.DI 1D dubl0\18 areu &Dd ...... lepublicaa euppon all neceaaary funds for national aeouriv • .lt the .... tt., Jtepablloana I.Daiat. on eettiDI priorlttee at hOI8 vlthout eacritlot.Da ~',,.,, \be J)I"CmmD needa ot tba peopla •••• .u. the people. I} I I I ' . . STATEMENT BY HOUSE MINORITY LEADER GERALD R. FORD, R-MICH. ON THE AIR 2 P. M., MARCH 25, 1966. I believe Congress should thoroughly investigate the rash of reported sightings of unidentified flying objects in Southern Michigan and other parts of the country. I feel a congressional inquiry would be most worthwhile because the American people are intensely interested in the UFO stories, and some people are alarmed by them. Air Force investigators have been checking on such reports for years but have come up with nothing very conclusive. In the light of these new sightings and incidents near Ann Arbor, Michigan, and elsewhere, it would be a very wholesome thing for a committee of the Congress to conduct hearings and to call responsible witnesses from the executive branch of the government and other witnesses who say they have sighted these objects. ' UFO STAT.E21ENT -2- I think the &nerican people would feel better if there was a full-blown investigation of these mysterious flying objects, which some perso~ honestly believe they have seen. 11 :fl if ' - STATIMDIT BY HOUSI MIHORITY LIADI& GIULD a. rc:.D, a-MICB. ON THI Ala 2 P. M., MARCH 25, 1966. I believe Caaar••• abould thoroulblJ 1D¥aatlaat• tba raah of reported aiptla .. of ualdaDtlfied flylaa objeeta in Southan IU.cbi-aDd other parte of the eouatry. I feel a eaap-u•loaal laqulry would be 1101t wortbwhlle bacauae the ._ariean people are lat .. aely iDtereated 1D tbe uro atorlea, aad eoae people are al&rMd by th•. Air roree f.ayeetlptore have beea ebacklaa on euc:b report• for , .. r• but have eoae up vitb a9th1Da ftl'J eooclual¥a. lD the lipt of tbeae an eyhct.aaa od iDcideate near ADa ~ .. IUcblpD, aad elaewher•• U .-ould be a very wboluoae thf.aa for a e~ttee of the CODIJ'U& to eoaduet hearlDa• and to eall rupoaalble vitaeaau froa the eaacuti¥a br&DIIIb of tbe ao,..._t and other vitauau wbo aq th., ha•• aipted the•• objecte. (MORI) .. ' .. uro STATIKift 1 think tbe .._ic .. people would feel bettu 1f tlaue vaa a full•blowa taveatl .. ttoa of tb .. e .,ate~ioua flJiDI objeota 1 vbtcla aoae peraoaslaaa•tlJ believe tla41J laave •••· Ill .. ' ... APRIL 5, 1966 WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, CREATIVE FEDERALISM, AND APPALACHIA BY HOUSE MINORITY LEADER GERALD R. FORD, R-MICHIGAN. The American people are a great people. They have built a mighty nation from humble beginnings. From the earliest days of this republic, our people have yearned toward greatness and have displayed the pride and spirit necessary to achieve it. We have been building a great society on the North American continent ever since the early settlers came to these majestic shores and began carving out a new life for themselves in the wilderness. President Johnson has seized upon a phrase--the Great Society--and has given it propaganda value. He tried it out in a University of Michigan commenc~ent address before he quite knew what he was going to do with it. It ,, caught on, and he has been capitalizing on it politically since then. Let's take a good look at the Great Society catch-phrase. What does it really mean? Briefly stated, it is the old New Deal updated. It is the New Deal warmed over and fluffed up into a giant omelet of Big-Daddy Government that - is overflowing the sides of the pan and threatening to put out the fire. By "the fire " I mean the pride and spirit of industry and incentive which have -· generated the greatness we see everywhere about us in this rich and beautiful land of ours. There is nothing really new in Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" program-- nothing that does not flow out of the "New Deal" or out of the Kennedy Admi~i._.t~a.,. ,· \"•.' tion's attempts to build a mighty political machine in every city in the nation. (MORE) ' -2- WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, ET AL. Look at some of the facets of the anti-poverty program. The Job Corps is the old Civilian Conservation Corps of depression days reshaped to fit a nation of big cities. The college work-study program is the old National Youth Administration idea. The Community Action Program is the local community uplift program hooked to federal money and, not incidentally, to federal dictation. We Republicans have not opposed all phases of the President's so-called "Great Society" progr-. We have voted for ~ an~~~oved 4 some of the legislation implementing it as it moved through Congress. Most of the objectives are desirable, but the end does not always justify the means. This is true just as much in government as in individual conduct. When Republicans are returned to power in Washington, we also will offer the people a program that promises great progress toward realization of this nation's goals and dreams. The Republican attitude toward what President Johnson calls his "Great Society" program is based on the difference in philosophy between the two major political parties. We feel that ~ are the Party of the People because of this difference in philosophy. Republicans want to help people do more for themselves. Democratic Administrations just want to do things for people. This is epitomized by the cynical question asked by those whose votes can be bought: "What have you done for me lately?" (MORE) ' -3- WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, ET AL. We, too, want to make this an ever greater nation--but not through sacrifice of the spirit and incentive by which the American people already have made themselves great. This does not mean we are sit-patters. This does not mean we oppose just for the sake of opposing •••• It means we think our way of leading America to greatness is better than the way of Lyndon Johnson and the liberal Democrats. President Johnson in his 1965 State of the Union message defined his Great Society program as aimed at improving the "quality" of the American people. Republicans believe it may undermine the character of the people instead of strengthening it because as engineered by Lyndon Johnson, it smacks too much of "Big-Daddy-will-take-care-of-you." ' Perhaps the best example of this is the rent subsidies program for which the House recently voted funds by an eight-vote margin. The fact that some Democrats joined Republicans in voting against the funding of this program points up the basic weakness of it. Republicans feel the rent subsidies program should not be launched at this time, when we are fighting a multi-billion-dollar war in Vietnam. But apart from that, there is the basic question underlying a program like that of rent subsidies, What does it do to a family to have the government pay three-fourths of its rent bill? Will this be an incentive for this family to buy or build a home of its own someday? I doubt that very much. I thiak the effect will be to destroy initiative. It will only be natural for the (MORE) -4- WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, ET AL. family living in a government-subsidized apartment to stay there the rest of its days and let the government--that's every taxpayer--pay most of the rent. Where we Republicans have attacked so-called Great Society bills, it has been because this legislation threatened tostifle state, local, and private initiative or launched expensive new programs in a time of inflationary peril. We have made repeated attempts to improve Great Society legislation, and in some instances we have succeeded. We gave strong support on final passage to the higher education bill, vocational training loan bill, the immigration bill, the Older Americans Act of 1965, various bills in the field of health, manpower development and training, various anti-crime bills, measures for the control of air and water pollution and water resources planning, and the 1965 voting rights bill. ' Republicans made a huge contribution to the health care of older Americans in 1965. It was Republicans, not Democrats, who proposed a program of matching contributions to cover the medical expenses of oldsters. The Democrats snatched up the plan--and combined it with their program of hospitalization under social security. President Johnson for two years now has been tossing around another phrase which is as nebulous as his .,Great Society" catchword was originally. He talks about "creative federalism." Mr. Johnson speaks of creative federalism in terms of working with the states and local communities to solve various problems and of developing new fiscal arrangements to promote that so-called partnership. (MORE) -5- WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, ET AL. This is an extension~ what the Kennedy Administration tried to do when it conducted regional White House conferences throughout the country. As we Republicans see it, creative federalism promotes not so much a partnership between the federal government and the states and localities as it does a dependence upon the federal bureaucracy. This so-called 11 creative federalism" is marked by a shift away from the old, across-the-board grants in aid toward specifically targeted programs that carry with them greater federal restrictions. This, of course, means less authority for governors. It means more and more that Washington is running the whole show, bypassing states and working directly with local communities as in the anti-poverty program or as in employing a federal boss to direct a multi-state program like Appalachia. , Local officials are wary of such potential czardom, and well they might be. The term 11 federal coordinator," as employed in the proposed Demonstration Cities bill, sounds innocent enough. But it is another step toward creating a new layer of federal bureaucracy--the "federal mayor." Is it only Republicans who worry about this new trend toward greater federal dictation to states and local communities? Not at all. It was California's Democratic governor, Pat Brown, who recently moaned that "while an increasing number of Government services are administered under joint state and federal auspices, the governor is brought into the policy-making discussions only infrequently, informally and haphazardly." (MORE) . - -6- WETA-TV DOCUMENTARY ON GREAT SOCIETY, ET AL. The Appalachia program is an example of what Mr. Johnson calls "creative federalism." It passed the House a little more than a year ago, 257 to 165. It was the first major Great Socity bill to clear the 89th Congress. Republicans opposed it on the ground that Congress was discriminating against other regions troubled with poverty pockets by pumping extra federal dollars into one particular part of the country. Well, Mr. Johnson has an answer for that. He now plans to use this same type of regional aid approach for other blocs of states. That way he can spend much more on such programs. Instead of the general attack on poverty pockets throughout the country that House Republicans proposed early last year, the Administration plans to do it on a region-by-region basis. That way the dollar amount in each bill does not seem overly great, but all the bills put together will add up to a whopping sum. Are federal dollars the only answer to the economic woes of areas with played-out coal mines and iron ore mines depleted of high grade ore? One anSif« in those areas is to capitalize on assets not yet fully developed-- such as prospects for promoting a richly rewarding tourist industry or turning other natural resources not yet fully tapped into jobs and local dollars. This can often be done through state and local action. Minnesota, for instance, has persuaded industry to make use of that state~ virtually unlimited low-grade iron ore reservej by giving industry a tax break as an incentive. Incidentally, this break was voted by the people--not handed to industry by the State legislature. This is local and state creativeness. This is creativeness at its best. This is the people speaking and solving their problems. This is what we Republicans believe in. #I I ' ~-&~ ~ ""'-'. -~~ Jr-u-u.LJ UllL S, 1966 WI'U·TV DOCUMIN'U.RY ON GUAT SOCII'lY, ClliATlVI liDIIALlSM, ANI) APPALACHIA BY HOUSI MINORITY LIADia GIBAl.D a. lOID, l·MICHIGAN. The America peofle ere a areat people. They have built a •i&ht.y aaticm from humble bealmlla... rrom the earUeat claya of tbia republic, our people have yeanecl toverd ar .. taeaa and have cliaplayed the pJ'ide and apirit neceaaary to achieve it. We have bea buUdlD& a areat aociety on the North -.ican coatill&llt ever atDce the early aettlera ceme to theae Mj .. tic ahorea and be~&~~ carviaa out a new life for th ... elvea ia the wildern•••· Prealcl•t Johaaoo haa aelaed upoo a pbraae••the Great Society··•d baa aiv• it propaaanda value. He tried it out in a Ulaiyeraity of Michi&Ail cc:aaenceaent addreaa before he quite laaew what he •• aol.Da to 4o with it. It ~aupt ota, ud he haa be• oapitaliaiD& oo it politically aiace thea. Let' • take a aood look at the Great Society oatch•pbrue. What doea it really meant Briefly atated, it 1• the old New Deal updated. It ia the Hew Deal war.ed over aod fluffed up into a &i&llt o.elet of Bia·Daddy Goverom.at ~bat ia overflowlaa the aidea of the pan &lld threat•laa to put .out the fite. By I ' "the fir• " 1 mean the pride and apirit of laduatry and lllC•tive whlc~ i~ve ·! '•\ &••rated the areatneaa we ••• everywh•• about ua lD thia rich aad beau'11ful \ l \ lad of oura. There ia aothla& really new in Lp4oa Joblaaoo • • ''Creat Socia~•· prcllgr .. ·- l \i \ \ aothl.Dg that doea not flow out of the ''Mew Deal" or out of the &.aecly A~~iatra- tioa'• att..,ta to build a mi&bty political ..chine in every city ' . ' Wl'l'A-TV DOCallll'rARY 011 G&IAT SOCIIrY, It AI.. Look at aOIU of the faceta of the uti•fOYWCJ pr:oar•· Tile Job Cor:pa la the old Civilian Coaaacvation Cocpa of depr:eaaioa daya r:eabaped to fit a Dation of bf.a eitiea. The colleae wor:k•atuciJ pr:oar:• ia the old llatf.onal Youth AdaiDf.atr:atiOD idea. Tbe c .... ity Action Proar:• ia the local c~lCJ uplift pr:oar:• hooked to fede&'al 1101l8J ucJ, aot iaoideotally, to feder:al df.etatf.OD. We lapublicaaa bave aot oppoaed all pbaaea of tbe Pr:eaideDt'a eo-called "Gr:aat Society" pr:oar:•· We bave voted for: parte of it, ud ve bave illpr:oved acae of the leaialatioe f.ltpl--ttaa it •• it IIOWd tbr:ou&b Cooar:eaa. Moat of the objective• ar:e dutr:able 1 but the met doea not alwya juatifJ the raeana. Tbla la tr:ue juat •• IRIDh lD gove&'D88Dt aa ta f.Ddividual eonduc.t. Wbeu aepubUcaa ar:e r:etumed to power: 1D V.ahf.Daton, we alao will offer: the people a pr:oar:• tbat pl'oaia .. ar:eat pr:oar:eaa towar:d r:eallaation of thla aaU.oa '• aoala and de.-. The lapubllca attitude tow.~:d vbat Pr:eaideat Joblaaoa calla hie "Ckeat Society" pcoar:• ia baaed oa the difference 1D pbf.loeophy betVHil the two aajor: political pa~:tiea. We feel tbat .1!. ace the ftr:tx 2[ S1!J. People becauae of thia dlffer:eaee in fbUoaoply • &epubllcua vat to help people clo aore S thft!!lua. ~l'atlc Adaf.Dietl'atlou juat -t to do thiDae .fK. people. Tllia ia epltoalaecJ by the cplaal queatioa uked by thoae vboae votea caa be bouaht: ''What bave you doae for: ae lately!" (KOU) ' . ' ·3· WIU-TV DOCUMIHTAKY Oll GUAT SOCIITY, ft AI.. We, too, weat to .. ke thia aa ever areetu aaU.oa--but aot throup aeczolfice of the lpirlt aad lac•tive by wblch the Amezolcaa people elreecly have made th ... elvea 11'88t. Tbla doea aot mean ve ere lit-pattera. Tbla doea aot meaa ve oppoae juat fOe' the aake of oppoat.aa •••• It meaae we thlak our wy of leedlaa ~ice to &r•taeaa ia better tbaa the wy of LpdOD JobDaOD ad the liberal De.ocrata. Pl'uidnt JohDaoa ill hie 1965 State of tbe Ualoa ... ease defiaed ble people. lapubUcaaa believe it .. , uadtmp1ae tbe cbaracter of tbe ,.ople laatead of atreaatbeaiD& it becauae aa eaaiaeered bf Lya4oa Jobaaoa, it -..eke Perhapa the beat ...,le of thle le the reat aubaldlu proar-fozo which the Kouee rec•tly voted fuada ))y aa elpt-vote urat.a. The fact that aoaae Daoc:rata jolaed lepubUcaaa 1D votlaa aaalaat the fuadiD& of tbla proar- polatl up the belle waakDeaa of it. RepubUceal feel the reat aubaldiu proar-1bould aot be lauached at thle tiaa, vha we are fi&btiD& a aulti·bUUoa-dollar war 1D Vieta-. But apal't fr011 that, there ia the balic que1t1oa uaderlylaa a proar• like that of rat aubaicliu. What dou it do to a faally to have the aovenaeat pay tbree-fourtba of ita zoeat bill! Will thia be aa lDcaotlve for tbia f..tly to buy or build a h0118 of itl o.o IOMclayf I doubt that very aucb. I thiDk the effect will be to deatroy laltlative. It vlll oaly be natural for the .. , ·•· WI'U·TV DOCUMIB'U.aY OH G&kT SOCII'rY, IT AI.. f .. tly liviD& tD a aover .... t•aubatdtaad apa~~t to atay th•~• the ~•at of Wba~• we l.afUbltcaaa have attacked ao•callad G~aat Society billa, it baa be• bacauaa thta leatalattoa tHaat••d totlttfla etata, local, aad ~tvata tatttativa o~ laUDChad •••a tva new pro&~ ... tD a tiae of tDflattoauy perU. We have -de ~•,..ted att..,u to ~ova G~ .. , Society leatalattoa, aad ill eOIU iDatancaa we have aucceeded. We pve at~oaa auppo~t on ftDal paaaaae to the hiaher education bill, vocetiODal t~aiDiaa loaa bill, the t..i~atiOD bill, the Older Aaartcaaa Act of 1965, vuiou billa ta the field of healtb, MDpover develOJIII•C aad t~atataa, varioua aati-c~iM billa, ... aurae fol' tbe cOGUol of at~ ad •ter pollutioa aad vatel' ~eeourcaa plaaatDa, aDd the 1965 vottaa l'iabt• bill. l.apubUcaaa -d• a buae coat~ibutiOD to the b .. ltb cue of older All•tcaa tD 1965. lt wa l.apubllcaae, Dot O..OCI'ata, wbo pl'opoaad a pl'oaraa of -tcbiDI coat~ibutiODI to cover the .. dtcal expaneu of oldatua. The De.ocl'ata eaatcbed up the pla••aad ca.btDed it vttb tbail' P~"otr• of boapitaliaatiOD haeidnt JobaaOG for two yea~• nov baa b... toaeiDa ai'OUDd aotber pbl'ue vbicb 1a aa aebulou ae bta "GI'eat Sooiety" catcbvol'd "41 Ol'i&iully. He talka about "c~aattve fedualtaa." HI'. JobllaOD apeakl of cr .. tive federaU• tD tenae of wo~ktaa vitb the etatae aad local c~ttlea to aolva va~iou pcolll-aad of daveloptDa new fiacal arraaa...ata to fi'O.Ota that ao•called putaerahtp. ()1)&1) ' . ' -5- WlrA•TV DOCUKIHTAIY ON GlliAT SOCllrY • lr AI.. Aa we .. pubUo•• aee f.t, crutive federali• proaot .. Dot 10 auch a partauahip betve• the federal aovenaeat •d the atatea aad locaUUea •• Thia eo-called "crutive federali•" ia IIAl'ked bJ a ahift awy from the old, acroaa•the-board araata 1D aid toward apaoiflcally caraeted progr ... that carry vlth U.. areatar fedaral r .. trlctioaa. Thia, of courae, maaaa 1... auth«ity for aoveraora. lt meaaa aore Md more that VaahiD&tOD ia r-iD& the whole abow, bypaaaiaa atatea Md world.aa direotly with 1~1 co..ualtiea aa ia the •ti•,avarty proar• or aa ID _,loyi.Da a federal boaa to direct a aulti•atate proaraa like .,.lachia. Local official• are wry of auch ,at•clal caardca, aed wll th., aipt be. The tara "lladaral coerdlaator," aa aaployed 1A the propoaacl De.oaatratioa Citlea billa aouacla 1Anoceat eaoqh. But it ia aaother atep toward creatiaa a Dew layer of federal bur'eaucracy••tha "federal MJOr. " la it oely lepubU.oaaa who vorry about thla Dew tread toward pea~ fedaral dictatioa to atatee aacl local coaauaitleef Not at all. lt *' ; \, ' \· aa 1Dcr ... 1Da DUIDber of GovarD~HDt eervicea are acblDlatared under jof.Dt \state ·\ aad federal auapic .. , the aovemor ia broupt lato the ,aU.cy-aaklD& dlacuaioaa oely f.athqueatly, iaforaally aad hapbaaardly." (MORI) ' . \ \ \ ' ·•- Wl'l'A·TV DOCUMIN'rAU OH GOAT SOCIIrY, IT AI.. The Afpalubla proar• 1.1 an ....,le of what Ml'. JobDaoa Qalla 11 Ql'Mtive feclel'ali•." It paae4 the Houae a litt.le mOI'e than a Je&l' aao, 257 to 165. It waa the fil'at •JOI" Gl'Mt Socit:y bill to Qlur the 89tb aoaarua. dollal'a iDto one putic:vla p&l't of the aOUDtl'J. Well, Kl'. JobDaoa baa ao anawer fOI' that. He uow plaa to uae thie aame type of l'qi•al aid appl'OMh f« other bloc a of a tat... that vay he C&ll .,.d auoh moTe oo aucb pro &raM. Iutead of the •••al attack OD povuty pooketa woupout the C:OVDCI'J that Houae lepubU.caaa Jl'opoae4 early lut yea, the Adllailliatratioa plau to do it oo a l'eaioe•by•1'81'-baaie. That va:y the dollal' amouat 1D each bill doea aot ••• ov•ly arut, but all the billa put toaeth• will add up to a vhoppiag ·-· Al'e fedel'al dollaa the GGlJ aaawer to the eaoaomia woea of areaa with , playe4•out coal alaea aad il'OD ore aioea depleted of hip &l'ade Ol'et Oae an~ 1D thoae ueaa 1a to capitaltae on uaeta aot Jet fully developed•• auch u pl'oapeata fol' pl'omottaa a l'ichly r~diaa toul'iat taduetl'J or tucai.Da othu utural r .. oUI'cea aot yet fully tapped iato joN aad local dollar a. thie c:u oftea be doae thl'ouah atate ad local acttoa. MiDDuota, for iaataace, baa JHII'&u&ded iaduatl'J to Mke uae of that atatell virtu&llJ uaU.atted lov-arade ll'oo bl'eak waa voted bJ the peoJle--aot handed to tuduetl'J bJ the State legialatw:e. Thla 1a local ud atate cl'eativeaeaa. Thie 1a cl'eativ.aeaa at ite beat. Thie la the people apeakiaa ud aolviaa thell' pl'obl... Tbla 1a what we , lepubltcaaa believe ia. ''' .. //REPRESENTATIVE FORD [11"] r~ ON MARCH 31ST LAST, THE SECRETARY OF AGRICULTUREJ ORVILLE L. FREEMAN ANNOUNCED THAT THE PRICES OF FARM PRODUCTS HAu DROPPED DURING THE PRECEDING WEEKS AND EXPRESSED DELIGHT IN THIS FACT. THE PRESS THROUGHOUT THE NATION REPORTED HIS ELATION IN DETAIL AND FARMERS THROUGHOUT AMERICA REACTED ANGRILY. THE NE~ YORK TIMES BEG·N ITS REPORT ON THE SITUATION IN THIS ~AY! "SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE ORVILLE L. FREE~11AN EXPRESSED PLEASURE TODAY 'JITH THE FACT THAT THE PRICES OF FAR.~ PRODUCTS HAD DROPPED RECENTLY. "IT ·uAS THE r I RST T I fv1E I;~ THE fV1E~v10RY OF FEDERAL F ARf-~ OFF I C I Al-8 (_, ~ THAT A SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE INDICATED THAT HE \AS PLEASED JITH . . , - 2 - A DECREASE IN FARM PRICES. LIKE MR. FREE;~AN ~ THE OFFICIALS WERE HAPPY TO NOTE THAT CONSUMERS OULD BENEFIT FROnv1 LOWER PRICES BY TH IS SU ~\1ER." LET ME REPEAT THAT LAST SENTENCE: "LIKE lv1R. FREE~MN, THE OFFICIALS \VERE HAPPY TO NOTE THAT m NSUi~ERS VJOULD SENEF IT FROM LO !'ER PRICES BY THIS SU. 7 ~ER. " THERE IS ONLY ONE FLA IN THIS STATEMENT. IT SIMPLY ISN' T TRUE. PARADOXICALLY~ AS FAR~ PRICES HAVE ~OVED STEADILY oo:N~ARDJ RETAIL FOOD PRICES HAVE RISEN EVEN MORE RAPIDLY AND THE DEPART11fNT OF LABOR' S COST OF LIVING INDEX HAS CONTINUED TO CLIMB TO RECORD HIGHS. ' • -3 - SECRETARY FREEMANJ ECONOMIC ADVISOR GARDNER ACKLEY, AND EACH OF THE OTHER PROMINENT AGRICRATS HAVE TRIEDJ REPEATEDLY AND , 'I TH ZEAL J TO iiftAKE THE A rvER I CAN FAR nER AND HIS FA. I L Y THE ¥JH I PP I NG BOYS FOR THE INFLATION THAT IS STEADILY TAKING ~ORE AND .tlORE DOLLARS FRor~.~ THE POCKETS OF EVERY A.ViER I CAN. THE HOUSE' I VES OF A.1ER I CA SHOULD BE TOLD THAT 61 PERCENT OF THE COST OF THE FOOD IN THEIR ~RKET BASKETS IS ADDED AfTEB IT LEAVES THE FARM. I REPEAT-- THE HOUSEWIVES OF AMERICA SHOULD BE TOLD THAT 61 PERCENT OF THE COST OF THEroOD IN THEIR ,v1ARKET BASKETS IS ADDED AFTER IT LEAVES THE FAR\11. THE COLD HARD FACT OF THE f~TTER IS THAT THE RISING COSTS OF LIVING IN T&t COUNTRY CAN BE ATTRIBUTED PRiv~RILY TO ' - 4 - THE EXCESSIVE, RECKLESS SPENDING OF OUR PEOPLE • S ;~ONEY FOR i:ASTEFUL.~ TOO OFTEN UNNECESSARY PROGRAMS CONCEIV~D BY THE SO-CALLED GREAT SOCIETY PLANNERS AND CONCURRED IN BY THE GREAT ;v1AJOR I TY OF DE~OCRATS IN CONGRESS. SECRETARY FREEMAN HAS ALLEGED THAT DURING HIS TENURE OF OFFICE THE A~ERICAN FAR~ER HAS ENJOYED A FIFTY PERCENT I NCR EASE I N H I S I NCO~ I.E. W I LL ALL THE FAR.v1ERS 'fHQ HAVE ENJOYED A REAL INCOME INCREASE OF FIFTY PERCENT PLEASE STAND UP? -7 • OR) BETTER YET, LET THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE CONGRESS HEAR FROM YOU BY LETTER 1 t'IRE_, OR TELEPHONE. FAR\A ORGANIZATIONSJ FAR, t STATE NEV:SPAPERS, FAR LEADERS AND COUNTLESS INDIVIDUAL FARMERS FRO~ COAST TO COAST ARE SOILING 'ITH ANGER OVER THE , - 5 - POLICIES AND PRACTICES OF THIS ADM I N I STRATI ON ~· H I CH ARE DR IV I NG FARM PRICES SVII FTL Y DOVvNv,·.ARD AND co-~SUrv1ER --- COSTS HARSHLY UPWARD WITH EACH PASSING - ----- - -- -- DAY. LET THERE BE NO MISTAKE. THE JOHNSON -HUivlPHREY AD . .IN I STRATI ON IS USING AND ABUSING Af~ER I CAN FAR.~ERS AND --- RANCHERS AS THE SCAPEGOATS OF INFLATION. TO THIS STATEMENT I ATTACH A LISTING OF SPECIFIC EXAMPLES AND I INVITE YOUR ATTENTION TO IT. ' HEN THE AGRICRATS OF THE JOHNSON- HUMPHREY AD~INISTRATION IMPOSE POLICIES AND PRACTICES 'HICH HELP NO ONE AND HAR~ EVERYONE.J THE CONGRESS AND THE A~~ER I CAN PEOPLE ARE FULLY JUSTIFIED IN THEIR ANGER. THE BOILING POINT IS NEAR AT HAND. ' - 6 - THEREFORE, OUR CUEST I ON -OF-THE- -ufEEK: ~R. PRESIDENT, ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP PR I CES I DOWN ON THE FARM ? .. ' June 16, 1966 MEMORANDUM TO: Honorable Gerald R. Ford FROM: William B. Prendergast SUBJECT: Farm Income The real net farm income in 1965 was 15 per cent above the 1960 leve~In 1965 it was $14.1 billion; in 1960, $12.3 billion. The increase is due entirely to increased government payments. Because the number of farmers has decreased, real net income per farm was about one third higher in 1965 than in 1960. For 1966, the Department of Agriculture estimates a $1 billion increase in net farm ifte~e~~e and a $1 billion increase in government payments. income ' The Johnson-Humphrey Administration is using and abusing American farmers and ranchers as the scapegoats of' :tn:tlationz (1) by domestic fiscal policies which have sharply increased farm production costs; (2) by market price manipulations whcch have decreased prices received by farmers, with the result that the present parity ratio stands at only 7~ even including direct subsidies,despite Democratic promises of 100; (3) by refusing to admit that increased consumer prices -- increased food costs to the housewife and the wage-earner --have not been caused by farmers, such consumer prices having riSen steadily as farm prices have as steadily decreased; (4) by recommending drastic cuts in Congressional appro- priations for school milk, school lunches, land grant colleges, and other vital programs; (5) by the Secretary of Agriculture's dumping of huge quantities of grain at unrealistic prices upon the domestic market in order to break and depress grain and livestock market prices; (6) by the Department of Commerce action of March 7, 1966 imposing restriction on the export of cattle hides, calf and kip skins, such action resulting in lower domestic livestock products) (7) by a large and unilaterial increase in Cheddar cheese imporm, without any attempt being made to secure reciprocal trade concessions from other nations to expand U. s. agricul- tural exports overseas; (8) by a sharp curtailment of purchases of pork and of butter and other dairy products by the Department of Defense; and,I repeat - (9) by the Secretary of Agriculture's expression of pleasure with the fact that prices of farm products have dropped. , GOP CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE TAPED 7/29/66 RADIO TAPE REMARKS Agriculture Secretary Orville Freeman has told Democratic candidates for Congress to "slip, slide, and duck any question of higher consumer prices if you possibly can." I am not surprised that Mr. Freeman gave this advice to Democrats at a recent candidates conference. He knows full well that the Johnson-Humphrey-Freeman Administration is entirely to blame for the shockingly swift rise in the cost of living during the first half of 1966. He knows that the cost of living rose 2 per cent last year and is going up at a 3 to 4 per cent rate this year. Naturally Mr. Freeman is telling Democrats to avoid questions on inflation. He knows it's the No. 1 issue in the country and it is damaging to the Democrats. # # # ' ... • " . .. .. f' • I, \ 1' t ' •' q 1 .. • ' •P r • 1 " .. , • .... '' . ' !loll • 01r r f ' • t "' lr 1 ' 1 • , . R r· rl • ,, \' r. ~ ·' 1 ,.. ,. " ,. . ' . ' ,.. .,f C'tUf" , .... ,,, t r ., 'I ' '• , I I ' nrki n f 1 r • ''''· 1 Ql f, d It f • ': \ rt> <-or n i Zt> d fa,. llf' • • Pd t r "' ''' '', • ,.. • p,.rt y '"vern •. '·'''''' hf•· i·· . , / / u,_ __ ,..._eleRto • apot., ,.. llltfil' VS... to ._. tM ta ,_. om.. OD tMM wt ,.. eoatM\ Val Ja ;.l~i·ltl~•~• .-..--. wa ra u ta en ~ ........ , .. eERAl.D R . FORD P'IPTH DISTitiCT, MICHIGAN Aupa\ 15, 1966 €ongre~~ of tbt i!lnittb 6tate~ effiu of tbt ;fllinoritp l.eaber Jlouje of l\epre•entatibe• •utJington, J).t:. Hoaorable ICar1 B. MUDd\ thai ted Statea S•ate ~121 S.ate Office Bl.da Wub1.Dctcm, D. c. Dear Kar1t TbaDk 7'* tor 70V latter ot Aupat 12 with the kiad 11aY1tat1GD to prepare a -.,_.eeca4 teleYbim ·~ in your behalf. lou tao¥ that I will be p1eue4 to 4o thb ad AD)"thtaa elae I c&D to be M1ptul. MICHIGAN OFFICE: 421 CHE1111'1 8'nlaT SE. G-RAPtDS I v111 ba'ft ar preaa aeontuy, Mr. Palll M11t1ch, aet 1a touch vtth Walt CoaahaR to aake the arrang-.nta. Gerald n. J'Ol'4t M. C. r••c "'cc: Mr. Paul Miltich -copy ot original Mundt letter , rleada, there la a lear aDd raaeat da r l rloa today••too ,...r centrated t.a the • f poUtt.cal party. r f t dulll the tatakea polt.clu of thla ......._atntt•• t • rkatplace. 1kyrocke .f.aa 1 ereat rat•• oadlt1oaa t t 1 ... co •••1 • be It tvo ,..rl, 11d4MI .... t t ny law t ttl, nd nt1 •• bel wlth 00 •• 111 • Oltl • tic r 11 laet year aa4 too at•lattoa d th Pnaldeat. CH proper f.ataneta of all ~rlcaM. ''' lea ta • • .. ole • rae • t Ia "' I'U r•at .... ' • : c~--y.w • OIDBil • 1966 fore tr edy struck in his home early unday mor ina just tev weeka ago. Chuc Percy o • aood friend and will n tstanding United tat s Senator. Jut th car of this terrible crime will lth hi all f his li • 'l'hi murct r vas a dr tic exa te of cri ln our cou try. As J. ldgar oover as aald, "Cithe 1 of t is country ought t be at.la to velk on the atre ta of our citlea without being g,ged, attack .. , or r bbed., "But," he ad.ed, "w can't do that today.' !h er a rate oe up very year, but ne of the o t atartllng facts 11 that th rate of crt nat co victions is aoin& down. Thla ana that more crimes are bein committed al\CI riminala are aattin a y with it. What can we aay to all ttl ? Pir t of all, a pare t can aat ours tvea , whether ve are dotna everything e can t t sti 1 in our children a devotion to law and onar, a raapaet for otber people aDd thei:r property, .... e aenae of personal reaponalbilitJ• We loolt to our adlooll ancl collepa to Jromote aoocl clttzenabip 1ty 4nelopl• a love of cou try and a deep appreciation for itt intt1tutioaa, aDd to prov14a every .. raoo with auch tralnin& aa wilt aoabla hla o be a uaeful ber of society. We mu1t alto look to the ehureh to dewelop blah moral tta .. a~ds. the Ten Com.8n nt• aDd the Golden &ule, anciant •• they are 1 are true aDd valid t~. (11011) .. !he whole e-.af.ty, which ..an• all of ua, t be v1111DI to ~.,.rc law ptds %raffle ..... for .,.....t.. the •~ojeet , "Ctcl .. aa let,taa 11'-1aate .. t what of tiM acrn~t roner Juat1ce Vhlttabl" of the Waltecl ltat•• ... ,.._ eo.n vrota nceatlJ that w all •I~"M that a citlMa'e ftrat duty ta to uplae14 the 1•. •t be -.... wf.tla 1 •hula, "It te abo a ftret 4uty of lfte..-c to eafo~c• tlae 1 ..... that he batl ".....P .,.rk left ia (hill) to 1 ... a af.pty .... rft'olt \~Ma~ (•rtata) oODdlttou." ADd not too toea ap, oae of our top l .... r• to14 • utt-1 aeeoetatt• that tt nout• l"aeort to ..... ~ ........... tacl .. taa bottle ftpttaa" to ntata ita , .. , ... Our tataraal eecwrlty laaa ~ aetablll ... thro.th • 1 ... bf.eto~ of jeetloe UJMier 1•• We .toa't ....a .._ttl• ff.ptt.aa;",. 4oa't aeec1 cop ....._f.etwattee l .... r• wlao •J be wllltaa to "1 ... a aiptJ .... molt." W. call upoa our nattoael l ... ar1 to f.llfrwe CODtitf.oae that DM4 blfn¥1 ... V. .. u .,.. our l ... ere to .. c.re to all AMd.cae their .... cf.tutf.Hal ~f.alate. •c ve ;;; eJ~pHt our 1.-.~. to •lataf.a o~4er, to couDMl the u.aa of .. ._ .,--....... ,reaeee of lav," aad to •tec•r•• ratlaar thaa eacou~ ... ..,. cd.aiaal actt•. ODI) - During thta paet ••••ion of Coaareaa, I eupported l .. talattoa wbtch voul• make lt a federal crt.. to travel la lataretate comaerce or to uae aay of the fac1l1ttea of lateretete commerce with the lnteat of taclting tc rtot or other forru of Yloleace. lbia ie oae pod etep · ia the rlpt dtnctloa. 1 also vote4 to create a Kattoaal ec-taaf.OD on Cl'tatul ...... !hia eo-taatoa would have the tuk of aektag a COIIPI'ek••tw ahely of all our f..Serel crtrd.aal to protect all of ua. w -.at receaat .. that a ctttua'• ftret ._t)' te to uphoW the lft, and that "the flret .tut)' of acwe~at te to eaforce the law." I •• ••kf.aa for )'OUr eupport for reeleottoa to the ~·• ao that I .. , coattaue .., effort• ta your behalf. Ve •nt a acwer-.t wbere there te juet eaforce.eDt of the law ... a dete~tDed effort to protect the rllbt• and beat ' tateraeta of .wei')' cltt .. a. 6l!!O!ll!CII: Yote Oil lloveaber 8. fote .. ,..,ttcen. fote fol' Coaare•-Jel'rf rorcJ • . , . . . l in h1a 1 ctl ,. fat1 • ' 8tT)f ~ t lscu t ia • t r ba y S.t ate 11 I 't 1 r al f. • • a lt t lati ? It'• st of U.v • lt • fter ri e rf. • ~ o ar il 1 • 1 •• war la 7 rt t .. t a ra e '• • 2 ..... 1 J88r 1 fl tlo t• La• oa of U.vl 8 r4. r t• o•a to f r ts ctlv 1 latio ? A t la e r? 1 a try ' 11 lt 11 rtmar!ly .. is t ort nt. I at f lut -'-17 cut lev the PI" a will H lr ra 1 • el j the ,..,1. f ta try--to ore to t t rleu ar • ••(CIO ., . •u 11• llar •-"4ol1aa-s • ller y • J a 1a ~nt ttaa- ra. create ia t tt will • re • f • • 1'4 pntu to ' your •• M4:ent lJ, p wltla aoM 1 ful •lee to tbe Mlrlcaa Ni4..,. rlu ht bettea-to do diaD COIIflala U..t latl ere re trutb t11• ,..t'IJ i hoe nta ou t o lt e ,ia. thta oo•nat to •b f tnfla :l •• t utl • ., ell t • aomethl ly ne to ft1 • t :l • . . -(lACK TO t.a 12 rl t. to worry a lnf att • A tt s la atl to atop it. • lepu ltcan la ar i t • •• of p •• tatlv •• I led • f t t t • aUe t•a -.lU.tarJ t by S ar cent bie y r. bad the auppor f t of five f tbe n two to o •• tt•a t ••• ' Dati)' VO 8 • w t to at 1 latl 1 lt ca be • lle t t blle otft .. ...,.... ovtll , o vttl taaht 011 r Tlcaat Yote pu llca • aDd Ntul'll ~rq ror• , to ''' . . A!!lf&![g!: I a vorl ttea, t ... a · a e • t ou Co rea , J rry Ford, t t t •1 o not have to • Jerry ••• Six year• of flett ndtna. 'l'bat'a t •ve had under two ietratt a . a cumulat d efictta to av r $30 I.Ut u tra ••• 11 y tlte r .. enl you in ey atilt ca • t 1a e th boob. And if the cr ts an•t la ce t 1 tl •• , vb ..!!!. bey do it !l:lh ,...r the r ral Go1,8r1mlltnt will eoll et eJll fro ft'er)' .an, n • 11, t k14a at, of courae. Y '11 it for til•. id ,_ bow that f.a J t Che paat 10 ,..ra lnc taa toed r f ly !ba '• re daall double··• atilt r free••p DC!lna ~ll!IUVI'atlc Adalnistratf. • all win& ta. th r a. --~ TO ro~~-- ita cratte •Jorltlea in the Coaare11, tb federal .. cv r t laa't able to ,., r lta .. travaaancea despite t e tr ..... oua ta~ rde you're carr,rtaa. lhe free•apeD4tna O..OC:rata wttl tell you t taxea and a greater tlo l Debt are notbina t !hey don't t 11 7 ri'J about. lut J1 atlll pa)' and ,.,.. ills 1 helped drtv tnter st rates to the st point 1 re than 40 .. ' ·2- rs. is IIB.kes it or to '1 a car. •t 1 t ti 1 • 25 ttl ' Ul r (a f pt r 30). R)-- y • tell bllU.o olla t .... ., 11 r year to i tar 1 on't tall tt 1 bt 1lOW o at • ed. U btl to • r. • tell t t e .1 t.tllt • n taJC Just t 1 tareat tha • ' on•t 11 t • fed al 1 • • t .... ••(Mel "' t 1 • t t cl y, t •t 11 JOU t at 1e 13 lU. 1 ter st ... al ' lfar • r • tf be rata ' at •• ....... Vf.l t lt'l at e t Jo 8 lU. t d. le liD¥ • 18 A.erl le. hl t t f r hUct .., t th u 1 e !be 1• • 80 tella la at•t ,.., r JOUl' • bf.ll t t 13 attlll. t tn reat t tt 1 t. w f.f rat 0 t la ce • t u tlaea • • •• r t ' -- • 2)··-- 11 of h Pr 11 re•••• t r V.r 1 ta te a total UU.o • • t oct •l• t ' . t. ·-( r t r •• • al 7 vlll .. • 11 -ft I' r t • r • '• a • •• • • • ' ' ' .. QIIPAIGR '1'V SCRltt 1966 • 111GB l'NTD!ST dNOUNCIR: High interest rate are plapd.aa the American ,.opte. ..re 11 OUI' Conare man. JeUJ ford. to lift you tbe lCMiowa on hlp lntel'eat. Jer~··· •· fOlD: f11'et 1 let • read you a letter fros a dhtra .. ed wife aa4 .,tber la --(fo{UJ (/gos E8QM I EMTGR,)-- Grand lapide whOle buaHncl has be• traaafana4 by bh ...,t.,.r.A She vrf.tea1 "We are unable to sell our .odem faur•.,..room h011e here due to hlp lntereet (carrently 7 per ceat). and the blah dow..,.,..at required (nrratly • tlaln). We are therefore una1tle to manes• the 20 perceat ._..,., ... t r ... lr .. em a hOM in Wev York ltete. Of eoune, I do aot aee4 to tell JOU how •tfftnlt tbl8 la for a f-'lJ vlth youaa cblldna." 'lbe pltpt of tbu f•!lJ l • .oat pelaftal oae. It la •lU.pUacl .. .., u.... ill elllller eatet tbroushout our d:l.etrlet aDd all aero•• '-rica. It could latereat retea ere --(PAN p Hic-11 l=Jff, Pos re~-­ the htpeat ill 45 ,.. ..... A tou bow whet tbat ••rut to the fa.ilJ latereeted ta buyllll a .... ••tatereet ,.,...ca of 6~ or 7 perceat • .. t •JM JOU ann't a1Mnat to IMq a h•••• aDd ao you HJ to JOUI'Hlf, 'What'• hllb latereet to .. ,. Rip llltereet ratee laelp to pueh up plcee. a., niH the 1Maatue-• • coats aad he ... rally,., .. , the added coat oa to the collaUMr. Blah lntel'ett rates burt ... t'J '-rlcall. !hey allow vp la tile fora o prlce 1 booau all aloaa tbe lloe. 1bey hit the femer, lluelaeea, and the kUcler......ad vtad up hurtlaa the collau.er. High latereat ratae an iacr ..... rellta. (NOU) .. , ·2~ .. ..... tes r otb t le • • r • to 1 nt c: i le. ic • f 11 t1 1• y? st r t n. ric con 1 t ~'• ct. t ack f • t t • c 11 • f ra 1 :l.ta r4 tri r1 n l er at r ! & t1 • st ec 1 ff. I I • -· •• 1 lstratio ' n4l • • I • coat of lb'i -to r tt. •• pt • t n1 to • ith r, ri f 1 tar t • pric • a 1 1 f • • t' J •• rU:y t b f r lnt r t •t De t t • e t •t. 11 lc • • J t ~· r:l. • • ' . cflation wa• tbreat in o destroy tbe con t .,. Democr ts -ad.U.taqy ap aUl • tn an4 rtor &fa' t o Plod ... late mmY!5Ji!: 'W.ant 0 he • ? Vote e bllca • usual. They r slit • way to flpt iaflattoo. Ina d -eaMOtt.&l r ject as aaka'• cent• tal • f. tieD • octt~lLDZ all ..,..11caa 1 .. or .5 llllll• 1a • $4.6 llf.lU.• on t • lleaka ceat..tal. ~· tq tlae ...... •t J 're ,.,. .... Joru:.sa,n· -......... rat late¥UI ate • t to keilf c! 0 lac:t J rey to ''' .. ' I •lr •Jor laMt: laliiU• ...... '' ,.., ta vf • - tr. It u t-l.nl rt 11 ,. .. , ... Stat 1ft' 1't •• rUUa a • e .... ... tt.tt. Ia- t. t' '-'-n .._ t.a .. ,......ttrt. • ",, •• ,, • •• lJtl. nan • c lift • • , .... • ftf ., .. c c .... • t at •,.. eM f•ct• ta rlfft• Act. jwu t t ... \.aMr • 1 t ~~ "'tn 11 • .lefty, I I'Nily w1 ..... t: tcr tolar -die u ... ' .. nlrt •• h t., .... • I I le h t• tMt t Se J t 1• I • •I ~ ' • "'t. r eff c.iah • • U.lJ • ._.at cl • • "' M c , ..... a. Ia 1" _. -· ,. , .. I i .. f I ! - .. • -r = I : f ~ • • t i . r J : ~~-i l i -I ! t . I r r I · · · ' 1 I . a I ~ ' I • I j ' I " I } : ! I : ! . ; I I : ~~fill f ·- 1 ~ t \ ! ; I i J ~ l ~ ! I 1 I i ~ t ! f I I . ~ I I : I r I ' t l . r r 1 ' J ~· i I I I J : ! l , ! I -i I . ~ t 1 I 1 ! t I ' ,= ~ . I I . i I I ! & I i I J : I t I • • l I f 1 - . I I i J . I : I ~ ! r ! r l i t. i .. . r I ; I I .. I : ; ; I I I ~ I . f i I I = ' l t r I r = . r c - !fltf. !i . f I s: f f J f I . -- ! r r r : I r: --- [ t f .. .. •IrJI ; . ' f ! i ,= i : 1 r t , , l ; I : j t • ! I I I i ·i -J ; ; · . .. . "' .:-~ -..,_ ~--~ -~~ ...._.._ . - .. - - - ..... -- -. - . - - • • • • t .. ... ' l r • [ •• -.r=·UM l w ... IJIISIIil• ........ IW tiett•t llllltll II Dll• el • fttdt .......... , ........... tal1a .......... , •••••• """• ... ... .... • .,11 .... -...... ........ -., - ' --·-·-· •· INt. ._., I • _., ..., •• ...... ,.. _.._. • • ata "~" .. ••n••jA ___ _ . . 0 2 2 • t I a • s sa . . De ..... etataM" ,.lfUII&AN. ut.U .... tV.t. I ._.. ...,. aw _., 'tJPJ .._. 'II' fll14!11• • ....... t IIMU'ft ...... --•• l ._.,_ I • II Jlu . .. .... Ullllluf.ai'Mftl...._ I t I 4 o . . . .... I ..... ~., ..... ~ IU~ ~ .,. ·.:.· . llo I o I f • ·••· •.•• ~:· '•' 0. , . . . . l!.fon tM UI.<IO c-lU~ • Jell~.l ·~·••a. ~·ta-.IM..:U·.~::··:~~: .·: ~ • • • •• .. • 0 • • .. • '.. t • .. •. . ' ... • ' .... ~•111 ... u. ...... ., ....... --~ ............ -.1 ~ ....... : . ... . .... ·., . . ' .. . . . ··. ; ·. ~ . .. •• ' ' l, • .. -• .· , • • • • • • , • • • ... • • • ,. ~ ; • ' • • • • • ••• 0 • • • • : ~· ._,, nu, -. t.allau.--~·~·~••• &afl.ata.. ·a.' )Mtt ........... .. ...... ,. tMb. .. ~ ....... t I o I ' ... . . •• ._. et.e, wU1 MN •• +••• • lt .. tt• ..,. .., .._ , -1• _ ... _ ••• , ..... &a ....................... ,.. ......... . .... &a liU• 11.. l.J W8 ... Ill .. • .................. ,._ ....... ~ ............... .. '\ . . • lbh'e ....._,_, _. ...... ,_.11 .Ill PI ... -IIIII ef .... ~~-..... ... IWII ............... , .... ..., •••• ---• ---· R' ·- .... all .... -lUI ........ , ..... ••rt• ....................... . ~ ........ 'rDII I ef ..... IMI&ata. ...................... . .......................................... •til &a t ......... I.a ..... lt .... -..... 'IN• •'IIIII ....... I I 1•1 ~ .... .,.. ...... G.llJ.I .... . ' ' .... , I,--- •· •'"'• ._ ,...s.. t.a ...... .._ .... u. ....... , all ate--b · .. . .. I " I # I o I o • o a I I • I t • t I lo I •• ·le·te·.ll .. ,., ..... ~· ····~· ~lf-t: .... :· :.: . . . . . . . . . . . ' . . .. .. " .• . . . . . ' ' . . .. ,t• • • • ' •••• •• . . . . . ' . ' . --W IPI'I .... II U J•• · .. . ' . . . . . .. . . ' •• . . . . . ,,. .. : : ~ . . ~ ' . ......... ... •• fil't, ... -~ .... ~ ·-~ .............. ,, ,,.·;~·~··:~.,.;; ...... '··~ _; . . ···' .· '··· . • t 't f .-•• I I I 0 I f 'f 0 I I ~~ I o 1 #t f 1 I •• . .· . ..., ,... ...... '"17 .... ...., •• , ..... -......... ...., ····-.... • • •••• , .... te Uw -...... , ~ ......... u, I r ............. I I • a I u . ' . . . ... . IIIII) • • nell r le ic Aai,.n, ( h t• M U' u' ~ l ........ , • •l ,. ··~· th cut • J '., 1.1\ nr t 1 ~· "', 1 tl. r.l 1 f t l ... t ., ., • ... \ . .. . .. '·· .... l ••• " - ' ., fb• • 1• •t .. 1 .. • ~. u te hi ..... ~ ~(J . • 1 Hn , .. 1 , a IS .... for ,, I at . 7 ~ :""¥ • ~ r • ~ ... ._ ....... , -•-•s•cll'llllllt .. ?•s•t••• ... --,lll' .. g -- 2 ..... . r . icic o f . 1 I I . . . . . . . . • • lo ,. . ' . .· !' •. . " ' . l • . .. . . .. . . ·. .. . . .. . ' . , ·: . . . , '• ' . . MEET THE @~~ LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK ~· TOMMBOYA Minister of Economic Planning and Development, Kenya VOLUME 10 MARCH 20, 1966 PRESS NUMBER 12 JI.N. ~ k ~-a ~riotllcal ~' /' <-,.,. .( ,-' "--, ~ tjf#J~6 ~ ~. <:.'. '":.·'\ Pk,; .UN, 11"~, ~ CC. ,t(J(J~.I --, 10 cents per copy fl>aneL· JOSEPH C. HARSCH, NBC News GRAHAM HOVEY, The New York Times CARL T. ROWAN, Chicago Daily News LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK, Permanent Panel Member moderator: BRYSON RASH Permission is hereby granted to news media and magazines to reproduce in whole or in part. Credit to NBC's MEET THE PRESS will be appreciated. .. MEET T H E PRESS MR. RASH: Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS, although he is only 35, has earned a reputation as one of Africa's foremost spokesmen. He is Mr. Tom Mboya, the Minister of Economic Planning and Development of Kenya .. Mr. Mboya arrived in this country this weekend. He is also Chairman of the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa and Secretary General of his country's ruling political party, the Kenya African Na- tional Union. Now we will have the first questions from Mr. Lawrence Spivak, the permanent member of the MEET THE PRESS panel. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, our press reported the other day that a Communist plot to overthrow your government had been uncovered. Is that report true? MR. MBOY A: No, this is not true, and the Minister for De- fense the next day made a correction of the report, pointing out that there had not been such a plot although, of course, in view of recent developments in Africa, we, like every other African government, have warned against any of our people or leaders getting involved with forces from outside. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, is it not true that there was a gov- ernment announcement that there had been a Communist plot to overthrow-- MR. MBOY A: No, there was no such government announce- ment. MR. SPIVAK: According to our press also, you stage-managed the conference which deprived Vice President Odinga of his power in your party. Why did you at this particular time move against him? 1 MR. MBOYA: First, I'd like to make a correction again t~at there was no question of a stage-managed party convention. The whole program of reorganizing the party has beeR going on since 1964. This is because the party was originally used in t~e struggle against colonialism, and once independence was won, It was necessary to revise its role and also to determine the part it would play in independent Kenya. Since 1964 we have been organizing party branch elections in the districts. We have 41 districts in the country. This process came to an end last year, and the final position was to organize the paz:t;y convention, whiCh has now taken place. . In this reorganization we have had to amend the party consti- tution, and in the process of our amendment of the party. con- stitution we have done away with the post of Deputy President of the party and replaced it with eight Vice Presidents. The purpose of this is to give the party -a broader representation and bring in more people from the different provinces at the national executive level. In the course of this reorganization, the Deputy President-that is, the former· Deputy President-lost his seat, but this was as a result of an election by the party convention. It is not a stage-managed affair. MR. SPIVAK: You sound like an American politician, Mr. Mboya. You say there was no Communist plot, that your dis- pJacement of Mr. Odinga was just one of those things that hap- pened in the natural process of things, that he himself does not lean towards Communism, and that everything was just in order. ·;Why did you, according to reports at least, expel six Commu- nist diplomats-some newsmen, three Czechs, two Russians and a Chinese diplomat? Is this too inaccurate? MR. MBOY A: First, I have not spoken of Mr. Odinga nor have I said anything about his leaning or not leaning toward communism. I have mainly spoken, in reply to your question, about the recent Party convention and the changes that we have made. Coming to the absolute point you make now, regarding the recent decision to expel a number of people from Communis~ countries residing in Kenya, the decision was taken by the gov- ernment on assessing certain facts or positions within the coun- try relative to the activities of the individuals concerned. We have diplomatic relations still with the USSR, with China and with Czechoslovakia. These expulsions did not have anything to do with whether or not we continue to recognize these countries. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, am I to understand there has been no Communist activity, there has been no attempt to overthrow your government, that you have had no trouble at all from the Communists in your country, is that what you are saying? 2 MR. MBOYA: I have not said-.·- MR. SPIVAK_: I am ,asking .the question. MR. MBOYA: I am explaining the situation. If people have any predetermined ideas about these matters, I think the only per- sorts who can interpret the position correctly would be ourselves. There have been activities by certain individuals from certain Communist countries, and those individuals }\ID/'e been expelled from our country because of those activities. "" As regards the question of communism itself, our government's position is quite clear. We have published last year a Sessional Paper on African socialism in which we have quite clearly and categorically stated that we would not import into Kenya foreign ideologies, that for Kenya the ideology would be one of African socialism. That means that we reject communism. It also means that we reject capitalism in its well-known form of laissez faire capitalism, and we want to construct in our country and estab- lish for our country our own system and our own society. MR. ROWAN: Mr. Mboya, to follow up on Mr. Spivak's line of questioning, just so our viewers may have the record straight, I believe that in the last few weeks actually a dozen diplomats and newsmen from Communist countries have been expelled from Kenya, haven't they? . · MR. MBOY A: That is qiute true, yes. MR. ROWAN:-Then last fall a man from the New China News Agency was expelled after it was discovered he was the top Chinese Communist intelligence agent in Kenya? I believe that is correct, .is it not? MR. MBOY A: I will not state why he was expelled, but it is true that we did expel him. MR. ROW AN: It is also true, isn't it, that in the last several months President Kenyatta has had occasion to say in several speeches that there is no room for communism in Kenya? MR. MBOY A: This is not new. This is what we have· said all along. MR. ROW AN: And I believe that when I was in Kenya in the fall, the press had some large reports about a document pur- portedly distributed by the Chinese Communists calling for the overthrow of Mr. Kenyatta, is that not correct? MR. MBOY A: We have had a number of such documents dis- tributed and published. MR. ROWAN: The point I am trying to establish is whether or not there is a genuine fear in Kenya today that there is some kind of move afoot to overthrow the government of President Kenyatta. MR. MBOY A: There is no fear as such, but we have, as I have 3 already stated, taken certain steps that will insure that we do not have external interference in our affairs, and particularly that we do not have external forces trying to undermine the gov- . ernment of our country. In addition to the people that you have referred to and the decisions that we have taken recently, you may already know that we have also had to take action against, for example, a British monthly magazine, some British journal- ists and other people from other countries, essentially because these people have tried to interfere in the internal affairs of our country to try to undermine the stability and solidarity of our government. MR. ROW AN: Are you suggesting that your fear of Great Britain is as great as your fear of the Communist bloc in this regard? MR. MBOYA: When we expel a British journalist it is not the British government that we are fighting, it is the individual's actions. In this case, of course, the friendship we have with the British government and the cooperation that exists between us of course is much greater than that which we have with, say, the Communist countries. But the position that I am trying to establish is-and I think this is what must be made quite clear- that Kenya stands by her declared policy of complete nonalign- ment and that the actions we take against a Communist journal- ist or a Communist diplomat do not in any way mean that we have departed from this policy of positive nonalignment. These actions are taken entirely on their merit. MR. ROW AN: I believe it is a fact, however, that some mem- bers of your Party last fall were publicly calling for a break in diplomatic relations with Communist China, is that not correct? MR. MBOY A: That is correct, yes. MR. ROW AN: And that would tend to indicate to a reason- able observer that they feel more strongly about this than per- haps anybody else who might be accused of meddling in your internal affairs. MR. MBOY A: It depends on the degree of meddling by differ- ent people. This does not destroy the basis of our policy for positive nonalignment. We are dealing with each situation as we find it. MR. HOVEY: Mr. Mboya, this Communist threat or lack of Communist threat apart, aren't you facing a very serious prob- lem in internal unity in Kenya when it is felt necessary to humiliate the Vice President in the way that he was when he wasn't even given one of the eight Vice Presidencies of the Party? Isn't this a very serious thing when an elder of the Luo 4 tribe-I believe it's the second biggest tribe in Kenya-has to be treated in this way? · MR. MBOYA: This is a very interesting point of view, or argument, to put: Is it a humiliation to call for democratic elec- tions at a convention? Do we now have to understand that democracy means a guarantee of a certain office or position for certain individuals? MR. HOVEY: No, but I am suggesting-- MR. MBOY A: The fact that a person is not elected is not hu- miliation by itself. The people coming to the convention have a definite right to determine at the convention whom they want to elect. I could have as easily been left out or any other person. That does not mean a humiliation. Another thing which I would like to correct immediately is that Mr. Odinga or myself or any other person who wishes to stand for office in Kenya does so as an individual, not because he represents a tribe. Mr. Odinga does not represent the Luo tribe any more than I do. The whole eoncept of leadership by tribe is one which we have been fighting against for a long time and which we believe we have ultimately found a way out of. MR. HOVEY: I know that you have been fighting very hon- orably against tribalism, and I know, too, many of my African friends think we exaggerate tribalism in examining the prob- lems of the new Africa. But aren't you really headed for a serious tribal situation if Mr. Odinga is involved in this reported move to form a new party with Mr. Ngei, I believe he is an Kamba, and I believe the Luos and the Kambas together would outnumber the Kikuyus in your country, isn't that right? MR. MBOYA: I saw this kind of reasoning in The New York Times when I arrived here in an article that I read the other day -published in The New York Times the other day. I want to make it quite clear that this is the most misleading statement that I have read. Firstly, because it has no truth whatsoever. Mr. Ngei has pub- licly announced that he has nothing to do with the proposed "new" party, although in The New York Times they report him as supporting the new party. . And, secondly, even if Mr. Odinga and Mr. Ngei were to join the new party, that does not mean that the Wakamba people and the Luo people have joined the Ngei party because in the present government there is still a majority of Luo leaders in the government and there is still a majority of Wakamba leaders in the government. This idea that some leaders in Kenya represent a tribe and can force that tribe to support this or that group is entirely false and misleading. 5 MR. HOVEY: Mr. Mboya, I know Mr. Ngei subsequently de- nied this and, incidentally, The Times also carried the denial, but you must have been worried with some pretty big names involved in this new party yourself, because I believe on March 14 you said something about the ''big names in this game put forward some persons to start the party for them and wait to see public reaction before coming into the 9pen." Now, that surely must have been aimed at Mr. Odinga, Mr. Ngei or people at a comparable level in Kenyan politics. MR. MBOY A: I still believe that certain big names were in- volved, but this does not remove my point that-even if any big names were involved, that does not mean that a tribe was com- mitted. And I think this idea of associating leadership with tribe and exaggerating the influence of a leader on a tribe is most misleading and also is destructive. MR. HARSCH: Mr. Minister, to what extent was the economy of your country dependent upon aid from the Communist coun- tries, from Russia and China? MR. MBOY A: Taking China in the first place, since independ- ence, we have received from China a gift of about a million pounds in cash. Beyond that -there is no other economic or technical involvement. From the Russians we had an agreement signed in 1964 with about nine projects. Two of these projects are gift projects. A hospital, a 200-bed hospital in Kisumu, and a one-thousand stu- dent technieal college. Beyond this, there has been no other technical or economic involvement. MR. HARSCH: Has there been any break in your receiving economic aid from the Communist countries that ties in with the events you have just been discussing with these other question- ers? MR. MBOYA: There has not been any flow of aid from these countries, and so the question doesn't arise. MR. HARSCH: Since when? MR. MBOY A: All the time. MR. HARSCH: I have in front of me a newspaper clipping which, says that there is some evidence that something like $280,000 was made available-that would be 100,000 pounds- made available to Kenyatta's opponents by both the Soviet Union and China in an unsuccessful attempt to capture last week's crucial conference of the Kenya African National Union. Is that an accurate statement? MR. MBOY A: That would not be referring to aid to Kenya. MR. HARSCH: That is not aid, no. Is that true though? 6 .. MR. MBOYA: I don't know. MR. HARSCH: Is there any evidence of that? MR. MBOY A: That is a matter of speculation. MR. HARSCH: May I go back to the aid business? Are you here in Washington to talk about the possibility of obtaining more economic support--economic and financial, for your country? MR~ MBOY A: We are probing, and it includes both discussions with officials, as well as the World Bank and private investment. MR. HARSCH: Do you get enough capital from London for your capital investment needs? MR. MBOY A: We don't get enough. We get quite a substantial amount of our capital needs from London, but we could do with a lot more and not only from London but from every country that cari afford to give us some aid. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, according to you, orir press has mis- informed us pretty badly. I would like to check a couple of other apparently important things. The Soviet Union, according to our press, has furnished offi- cers, non-commissioned men, and sent tanks and fighter planes to Somalia, and your country and Ethiopia-again according to reports-have established a joint military liaison committee against guerrilla raids from Somalia. Is that true? MR. MBOYA: We established a joint defense agreement with Ethiopia long before independence. This was mainly because of our joint border protection agreement. MR. SPIVAK: Is it true that the Soviet has furnished men and munitions to Somalia? ~· ~OYA: I do not know the extent of the support they are g1vmg, but I understand they have given some military aid to Somalia. · MR. SPIVAK: Is your Mr. Odinga going to start a new party, or. has he already started a new party, as has been reported in this country? MR. MBOY A: He has not yet started a new party, and from the press reports this morning here, once again, in The New York Times, he is meditating for the next thirty days. That is my understanding. MR. SPIVAK: Has Mr. Odinga been charged with accepting money from Communist sources and using it politically? MR. MBOY A: "Charged" would be a very strong word. MR. SPIVAK: Use your own word. MR. MBOY A: "Charged" in our context would be in a court of law, which has not been done. 7 MR. SPIVAK: Would your government allow an opposition party to be formed if it were Communist-dominated? MR. MBOY A: Under. our constitution there is entrenched the freedom of association, and that means that any group of peo- ple can in fact form another party. Although we have been a one-party state so far, it has been entirely voluntary. MR. ROWAN: Mr. Mboya, you were quoted from LondC?n the other day as saying that it is. tim~ there w~ some . actio!'. to bring down the Ian Smith regime m Rhodesia. Is thiS British military action that you are calling for? MR. MBOYA: Yes. MR. ROW AN: Do you think that if the Wilson Government gets a bigger majority in Parliament in the upcoming elections they may bring that military action? MR. MBOY A: I do not know what they will do, but this I do know, that our government, and I believe most African govern- ments, would like to see Britain deal more decisively with the rebellion in Rhodesia, including the use of force. MR. ROW AN: I take it you think economic sanctions are not working, just as Mr. Smith says they are not? MR. MBOY A: They are not working, and they have not pro- duced the results, and especially since they are not mandatory. MR. ROW AN: There has been some talk of the African States joining together to use force. I notice that the Premier of Malawi used some rather colorful language to say that this talk is non- sense. Is this realistic talk on the part of the African States? Will anything come of it? MR. MBOY A: My position is that this is a responsibility of the British Government, and the British Government must take the necessary action, including the use of force. MR. HOVEY: Doesn't this inevitably bring up the question of African unity, Mr. Mboya, and the recent deliberations in the Organization of African Unity have seemed to indicate anything but unity within that organization. Do you think that it is possible to rebuild OAU unity so as to provide--to provide even the maximum pressure on Britain. and others to take the kind of action in the southern third of Africa that you would like to see them take. MR. MBOYA: I think Afri~an unity still exists, and I think that Afri~a can still exert the necessary pressure on Britain. I don't believe that OAU should be judged by just the incidents at one particular conference. If we were to do so, bodies like the United Nations would have ceased existing long ago. MR. HOVEY: I know, but I am not referring just to one, Mr. Mboya. I am referring to the response over the unanimous dec- 8 laration of intent to break with Britain because Britain had not brought down this white rebel regime in Rhodesia by Decem- ber 15th, and then I am referring too to this recent meeting in which there were walkouts over the question of the new regime in Ghana. This would indicate that not only are there no other issues on which the OAU can unite but that it is even divided on the tactics to be used on the one issue which up to now has pro- vided the cement of unity, namely, the question of the liberation of the southern third of Africa. MR. MBOY A: Yes, but I don't think there is any conflict or division as regards the need to liberate any part of Africa. There may be a difference in methods and in emphasis, but I don't find this particularly disturbing in the sense of the future unity of Africa. These are some of the issues which I have referred to as part of the crisis of confiden~e, but they are things that we can get over. MR. RASH: We have less than two minutes. MR. HARSCH: At the recent meeting of that Organization of African Unity in Addis-Ababa, the Kenya delegation walked out when the delegation from the new government of Ghana was seated, but when the delegation from the new government of Nigeria was seated, the Kenya delegation did not walk out. Why this distinction? Why do you accept the new government of Ni- geria but not the new government in Ghana? MR. MBOYA: The Kenya delegation did not walk out because the delegation of Ghana sat in the conference. The Kenya dele- gation was withdrawn because there was mounting confusion in Addis-Ababa, and we felt that the conference should be saved- our OAU should be saved and that the conference, perhaps, should have been adjourned to give people more time to consider the issues. MR. HARSCH: Do I understand that your government has no objection to the new turn of political events in Ghana? MR. MBOYA: It is not for us to object to what government people in Ghana have. We recognize the state of Ghana, not the regimes. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, what is the explanation for the increasing number of military take-overs in the newly independ- ent African States? MR. MBOYA: In very simple words, I would say it is part of this crisis of confidence. It is a question of the expectations on the part of the people, problems of leadership, problems of insti- tutions and some of the initial transitional problems in govern- ment. MR. RASH: I am very sorry to interrupt, but our time is up. Thank you, Mr. Mboya, for being with us today on MEET THE PRESS. 9 .:Yk {!J~~ of MEET THE PRESS as broadcast nationwide by the National Broadcasting Com- pany, Inc., are printed and made available to the public to further interest in impartial discussions of questions affect- ing the public welfare. Transcripts may be obtained by send- ing a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ten cents for each copy to: ~ £1'-s& k a_ .tN~. ?f'~ !iJ. CC. .tfJf#.l (~f!J~~., k) MEET THE PRESS is telecast every Sunday over the NBC Television Net- work. This program originated from the NBC Studios in Washington, D. C. Television Broadcast 1:00 P.M •. EST Radio Broadcast 6:30 P.M. EST t7~t:7 MEET THE P R E S S U'~ ~ LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK ~. . GARDNER ACKLEY Chairman, Council of Economic Advisers VOLUME 10 MARCH 27, 1966 NUMBER 13 .. ~~k 9'~-uta'~~ ~ "a'ul/uk,rd. ~ k. f!&a, .till, 1JI'~ ~ c-c. .tiJIJI.I 10 cents per copy !PaneL• EDWIN L. DALE, The New York Times LAWRENCE FERTIG, New York World Telegram and Sun AUSTIN KIPLINGER, Changing Times SANDER V ANOCUR, NBC News moderator: LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK Permission is hereby granted to news media and magazines to reproduce in whole or in part. Credit to NBC's MEET THE PRESS will be appreciated. .. ME E T T H E P R E S S MR. SPIVAK: Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS is the President's top economic adviser, Gardner Ackley, Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. · Now we will have the first question .from Sander Vanocur of NBC News. MR. V ANOCUR: Mr. Ackley, two weeks ago the Washington Post conducted a survey of the nation's economists in business, labor and the universities, 32 of them. Twenty-two of them said they favored an immediate tax in- crease. Do you, and does the Administration? MR. ACKLEY: Mr. Vanocur, I saw that survey. The answer to your question is that the Administration does not favor a tax increase now, and neither do I. MR. V ANOCUR: Why is that, sir? MR. ACKLEY: Because it is not necessary. We are watching the economic situation very closely. The President has repeatedly said that if the economic situation evolves in such a way that a tax increase is appropriate, he won't hesitate to ask for it, but our judgment as of this time is that it is not called for. MR. V ANOCUR: But, sir, to the degree that the economy, its excesses or whatever you want to call them, is dependent upon defense spending-the war in Vietnam-doesn't this mak~ this kind of projection very difficult? For example, who. would have. said back in 1964, in November, that a year and a half later we would have increased our troop commitment by more than a · quarter of a million men with all the incumbent costs in Vietnam? How can you project with a war like that? MR. ACKLEY: Indeed, it is very difficult to project under these circumstances, and that is one reason why we hav3 ~o be ver; much on watch and ready to move if things change. Things could change either in the international scene, with the necessity for increased expenditures in Vietnam. They could change in the domestic economy. But we are not going to base our policies on some imaginary possibility. We have to concern ourselves with the way things are and our best judgment as to how they look immediately ahead. MR. V ANOCUR: But being in the position of having to advise the President on what may be, wouldn't you think personally it is desirable to have the stand-by tax authority that has been kicking around in Congress for years--not just to lower, as it was originally projected, but to raise it too? Wouldn't it be wise to have that passed by the Congress so the President could have this mechanism? MR. ACKLEY: It might be nice for the President to have that authority, but in the first place I don't think Congress is likely to give it to him, and in the second place, I am not at all clear that it is necessary. Congress has demonstrated several times that it can act quickly on tax matters. The tax bill which was signed ten days ago was passed in a very short period of time-requested at the end of January and signed on March 15. The excise tax reductions last year were completed in six weeks. Congress can and, I think, would act quickly if the President made a clear recommendation explaining why what he asked for was necessary. MR. V ANOCUR: Mr. Ackley, what is the next signal that you are going to be looking for so that you can make a determination on what the economy is going to look like for the next nine months? MR. ACKLEY: I don't think there is any single signal that we can use on the basis of which to call our shots. We are going to have to look at what happens to employment, the utilization of capacity, the backlog of orders, the advance of production, the advance of employrrJ.ent, what happens to prices, obviously, what happens to inventories. These are all statistical things. Then in addition we have to keep as best judgment we can of the psychological attitudes which are developing, which are impor- tant. I think there is no single index that we can use to decide whether and when additional fiscal restraint might be necessary. That doesn't mean that we can't recognize it if and when that time comes. 2 .. MR. DALE: Mr. Ackley, Secretary of the Treasury Fowler has said that he regards last year's rate of price increase of about two percent as tolerable-not desirable, but tolerable~ Do you think that the recent rise in wholesale prices which for four months--November through February-was at an an- nual rate of six percent, is toleraole? MR. ACKLEY: No. I don't think that we ~ould maintain a six percent price increase for very long and tolerate it. As a matter of fact, we don't seek, we don't approve, we· don't wish for any price increase. We'd like to have stability. Clearly the rise in the past few months has been sharper than could be tolerated. It has, however, some rather special aspects to it, and I think we want to be very careful that we don't confuse some special circumstances, particularly in agriculture. Most of our price increase in the last few months, in the last year, has been in farm and food prices. That situation is changing, and we are fairly confident that it will change from here on. Over two-thirds of the price increase in wholesale prices and, I guess, in retail prices, too, in the last year has been in farm and food prices. But beginning about the middle of February and extending to this time, farm prices have stopped rising and indeed have begun to decline. Now that hasn't shown up yet in our price indexes. This coming week we are going to get the consumer price index for February, and that is going to be up, I am sure. And probably in March it will still be up. But we have to look at what is really going on now on the farm, and I think we are going to see a very different picture on farm prices in the months ahead. MR. DALE: Are you suggesting that we consumers can hope for possibly no further increase in food prices this year? MR. ACKLEY: That may be a bit optimistic, but certainly the kind of price increase that we have seen in the past 12 months, we definitely do not expect in the next 12. MR. DALE: In the overall, the Council in the Economic Report suggested that this year we could get by with a price increase no worse than last, which would be broadly two percent overall. Do you still stand by that forecast? MR. ACKLEY: I think it is too early to tell how we will stand at the end of the year. The fact that we have had as much price increase in the last few months as we have had already is going to make it more difficult to achieve that forecast. MR. FERTIG: Mr. Ackley, you referred to fiscal restraint, and fiscal restraint has two aspects: Government spending and the other aspect of fiscal restraint. 3 Now, why don't you discuss, or why don't you advocate cutting spending as well as raising taxes? MR. ACKLEY: Mr. Fertig, at the moment I am not advocating either, raising taxes or cutting expenditures. But clearly, if ad- ditional restrictions were required, if we were clear that it were, we would have to look at both sides of the budget, both the ex- penditure side and the tax side. I would like to point out, however, that the expenditure side has been pretty strongly restrained and that it would be quite difficult, without severe sacrifice of important national objectives, to make major further reductions on the side of spending. That is why, I would suppose, if it were determined that additional fiscal restraint were necessary that the primary action probably would be on the side of taxes. MR. FERTIG: Isn't our spending this year for non-defense higher than last year, and isn't it considerably higher than two years ago, and do you not project even higher non-defense spend- ing next year? So why not cut spending instead of raising taxes? MR. ACKLEY: The non-defense portion of the budget actually, of course, has been kept under extremely tight control and the fiscal '67 budget shows an increase, other than for Vietnam, of only $600,000,000, and the history of the civilian part of the budget, except for a few very uncontrollable items such as interest and veterans' payments, and so forth, has been indeed held very tightly. I think some numbers herE' might be relevant and interesting. The budget, the Administrative budget in fiscal year 1965 rep- resented 14.9 percent of our gross national product. If you ex- clude the additional Vietnam expenditures, that goes to 14.5 per- cent in fiscal 1966, and 13.7 percent in fiscal 1967, a declining portion. Even if you include the total Vietnam expenditures, it goes from 14.9 percent of the GNP in fiscal year 1965, to 15.2 percent in both 1966 and 1967. I would point out that that is lower than in almost any other post-war year. MR. FERTIG: We are spending more dollars, aren't we? MR. ACKLEY: We are spending more dollars, but we have a very much larger economy. MR. FERTIG: May I ask one other question, Mr. Ackley? Price pressures are very great today-as you would acknowledge over the last few months they have been. The rate of increase in the wholesale price index is very steep, and so is the con- sumer price index. If Mr. McChesney Martin in the Federal Reserve had not restricted the money supply a little as it has done, if it hadn't raised interest rates, wouldn't that price pressure be even greater 4 • today, and are you against using monetary policy that way? MR ACKLEY: In the first place, I would certainly say that the restrictive measures that have been taken by the Federal Reserve have contributed in moderating demand, and therefore pressures on prices. The change in the budget in the new tax law, which goes into effect very shortly, is an additional restraint. Together, they ac- complish a very considerable shift in the restraint from stimulus previously to restraint today. I have no objection of any kind to using monetary policy as part of the total economic stabilization arsenal. Our only objec- tion on the December action of the Federal Reserve System had to do with the fact that we would have preferred to have had that decision delayed until January, until we knew and they knew what the budget was going to be for the coming year, till we could have decided together what combination of fiscal and monetary restraints was appropriate. That is the extent and nature of our objection to the action that was taken last De- cember. I think that in fact the coordination which had previously existed between our monetary and our fiscal policies will again and-is being re-established, 'and I trust that instances of our dis- agreement over procedures will in the future be less important. MR. KIPLINGER: Dr. Ackley, you have indicated in some of your earlier responses that the government, the Administration, was still standing by its earlier estimates as to the size of the economy and the rate of price increase, something less than three percent in prices and $722 billion of GNP. Yet a great many of your economists and a great many people inside and outside government have already upped their estimates on the size of the GNP and on the rate of price increases. Isn't it about time the government dropped this pose of wishful think- ing and adjust some of these sights up a little? MR. ACKLEY: I didn't indicate I think on this program that I was still standing by the $722 billion GNP forecast that we made in January. We are in the process, as we always do once a quarter, of reviewing our forecast and will undoubtedly have another one. As you may recall, the Government Council's official govern- ment forecast is not made public more than once a year. We have one for our own internal purposes. I think that probably most of the news, most of the additional information that we had since last-late December and early January is in the direction of pushing that forecast up. Certainly not as much as some recent forecasts I have seen, but I would agree that that is the direction of any revision we might wish to make. 5 MR. KIPLINGER: If that is the case, then doesn't this almost automatically suggest that the price rise will be greater than the previous indication and that it might be in the neighborhood of three or three and a half percent for the year? MR. ACKLEY: I am not prepared at this time to make an esti- mate of what the price increase might be this year. As I indicated earlier, I think there are some factors working on our side from here on out. MR. KIPLINGER: I might follow with just this one question: You have had a lot of practical experience as a price controller in OPA days, during World War II, and QPS, during the Korean War. If the price level were to rise as much as 3.5 or 4 percent this year at the consumer level, would this in your view suggest that we ought to have some rigid form of ·price controls com- parable to those we have had in previous war-time periods? MR. ACKLEY: On the contrary. It seems to me that it would be quite unnecessary, inappropriate, under the kind of circum- stances that we foresee today, to be thinking or talking of any kind of legislative, statutory, wage and price controls. I think it would be a matter of pretty poor management if under the kind of economic situation we face we stumbled into that. MR. SPIVAK: May I ask you a question, Mr. Ackley? In January of this year you estimated that the Gross Na- tional Product for 1966 would be about $722 billion. On March 23, Arthur Ross, Labor Statistic Commissioner, estimated that the government economists now expect the Gross National Prod- uct will total $735 billion. Do you agree with the $735 billion figure, or do you think that is too high? MR. ACKLEY: That was Mr. Ross' own figure. It was not a figure of government economists, at least in the sense that the Council of Economic Advisors was involved. I think 735 is too high. Our forecast, of course, was $722 billion plus or minus five, so I suppose we would be within our forecast if we came up with 727. Whether we need to widen the range on the high side is something we are still .considering. Mr. SPIVAK: Do you think it is more likely to be 727 than 735? MR. ACKLEY: I wouldn't want to comment on that. MR. VANOCUR: Mr. Ackley, we seem to have come to this in this half hour, that you say that the Administration does not yet think anyone can say with finality that a tax increase is needed. Yet liberal economists and many conservative economists and bankers say that there is the need for a tax increase now. 6 Since capital investment is a great factor in the kind of over· heating of an economy that people are worried about, why couldn't the Administration repeal temporarily the 7 per cent investment tax credit, to be put back at such time as it is needed? This wouldn't take Congress very long. Why not err on the safe side in a matter like this? MR. ACKLEY: I think a case can be made that the investment tax credit is not serving a useful function at this time. It is true that the heaviest economic pressure right now is in the area of capital goods, and the severest pressure on labor markets is in those parts of the country where capital goods are manu- factured, durable goods, generally. On the other hand, I think there are a lot of diffieulties with turning that particular weapon on and off. Businessmen have been counting on it They have felt it was an appropriate structural reform of our tax system. There are, as I say, administrative difficulties of turning it on and off, and I think we are not ready to reach a judgment that that is an appropriate tool. MR. DALE: Mr. Ackley, the White House said that it pre- fers-the Administration prefers-to work quietly in private in trying to get business to comply with the price guideposts, in holding down prices. Can you give us an indication of how many contacts with business there are? How. many a week for ex- ample? MR. ACKLEY: I don't think I could make an estimate of that. We are constantly in touch with businessmen, the people in the Department of Commerce are. The President sees many businessmen. We talk about various things, including prices, price problems, price prospects. Where there does seem to be a prospect, possibility of price increases in the future, we try to talk about the nature of the problem and persuade the people involved to consider the national interest in price stability. MR. DALE: Can you give us an idea of the results of these conversations? Prices do seem to be going up after all. How . many times has the [administration] succeeded in, shall we say, heading off a price increase through this process of friendly con- versation and persuasion? Not an absolute number, but can you give us some sense of it? MR. ACKLEY: I think it is very difficult to quantify that. We hope that a lot of our persuasion is effective-and I think it is. Even where prices are increased, it may very well be that because we have discussed the problem increases are smaller or less inclusive or accompanied by price reductions. I think it is not possible to- MR. FERTIG: Mr. Ackley, Mr. Dale has referred to friendly 7 discussions and persuasion on the so-called voluntary controls. We have a vast complex of voluntary controls, on prices, wages, investment abroad, loans abroad. My ·question is this: If our monetary policy was right, why should we need all these controls? MR. ACKLEY: On the domestic side I am sure that we could achieve approximate stability of our general price level with no other effort, by keeping our unemployment rate perhaps about five percent and our utilization of industrial capacity down back around 85 percent. We are not satisfied with operating our economy at half speed. There is a problem that when the economy is running full and making adequate use of its resources, manpower and physical resources, there has been in the past some tendency for ·wages to creep up faster than productivity increases and for prices to rise. MR. FERTIG: Are you saying, Mr. Ackley, that it is essential to have monetary inflation and price rises in order to have a prosperous economy with low unemployment? That hasn't hap- pened in Germany, for instance. Why should it happen here? MR. ACKLEY: On the contrary, I am saying that .our job is to try to achieve simultaneously both things, full employment of our resources with price stability. We are not willing to rely on a single tool for that puri:>ose. We have a third objective, balance of payments equilibrium, and that too we want to achieve, but we are not going to do it just by depressing the domestic economy. MR. KIPLINGER: Dr. Ackley, you seem to suggest there are some depressing factors that have not yet taken effect in the economy this year. If the recent rapid rise or heating up of the economy is not to continue through the remainder of this year, then there must be some other limiting factors that are not yet perceptible. What do you foresee as some of these danger spots or possibly weak spots in the economy? MR. ACKLEY: I don't think we are in danger of recession or slide-off in our rate of economic expansion, but I think we have to remember, we did have a major change in monetary policy in December which has been working its way through the economy and, really, is just now taking firm hold. It is beginning to bite. It is beginning to bite on capital spending and on a lot of areas. We have a new tax bill which, although it is not a major tax bill, is not yet even in effect. I referred, in the case of farm prices, to the fact that the outlook there was different than it had been. This hasn't anything to do, basically, with policy actions. 8 .. It has to do with the fact that we had a very short pig crop last year, and this influenced the whole range of protein prices in the agricultural economy. That situation is turning around. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Ackley, at this point in our econmy, would you say the chances are greater that we ~ill have a tax in- crease, or the chances are greater that we won't? MR. ACKLEY: I would not like to make a guess on that, Mr. Spivak. MR. SPIVAK: Does the election have anything to do with your sense of timing on that, as some cynical politicians believe? MR. ACKLEY: I am no expert on politics. My business is economics, but I have the feeling that the best politics is good economics. I think there is nothing that people dislike more than inflation and that sound fiscal and monetary policies are the best politics for anyone. MR. SPIVAK: Gentlement, we have about two minutes. MR. V ANOCUR: Mr. Ackley, if you are going to ask labor, as you have asked labor in the past, for restraint, would not it be a _quid pro quo to ask for the temporary repeal of the 7 per cent investment tax credit? Wouldn't this help you with the labor leaders, who are quite rebellious, as you know from your experience in New Jersey and other places? MR. ACKLEY: I think the quid pro quo for the restraint that we ask of labor is the restraint that we ask from business on prices, and just as labor feels that we have picked on them and done nothing about prices, businessmen, many of them, feel that we have picked on business to knock down prices and done nothing about labor. I think we have and are trying to administer a balanced pro- gram in which we are asking everyone to be responsible. MR. DALE: In that connection, the Council has always di- rected the guideposts of what you call monopolistic situations. Generally they are relatively concentrated, big industries, but isn't it true the great bulk of the price increases have come in sectors such as food where the guideposts hardly even apply? MR. ACKLEY: I think that is right. The big price increases have been in food, farm products and a few internationally traded raw materials. MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Ackley, we are coming rapidly to the end of our time. I think maybe on that note we should end. I am sorry to interrupt, but our time is up. Thank you, Mr. Ackley, for being with us today on MEET THE PRESS. 9 .9k g;~~~o/ MEET THE PRESS as broadcast nationwide by the National Broadcasting Com- pany, Inc., are printed and made available to the public to further interest in impartial discussions of questions affect- ing the public welfare. Transcripts may be obtained by send- ing a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ten cents for each copy to: ~ .9'-" ..A'u,. f!&m .tNI, if'~ !'J. cc_ .!0013 (~fJJ~~.k) MEET THE PRESS is telecast every Sunday over the NBC Television Net- work. This · program originated from the NBC Studios in Washington, D. C. Television Broadcast 1:00 P.M. EST Radio Broadcast 6:30 P.M. EST I ' MEET THE P R E S S f!J~~ LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK ~· INDIRA GANDHI The Prime Minister of India VOLUME 10 APRIL 3, 1966 fJ/oa, .tiN, il"~. !'}. CC. 2(}(}~.1 10 cents per copy NUMBER 14 fPanel: ERIC BRITTER, London Times PAULINE FREDERICK, NBC News SELIG HARRISON, Washington Post PHILIP POTTER, Baltimore Sun moderator: LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK Permission is hereby granted to news media and magazines to reproduce in whole or in part. Credit to NBC's MEET THE PRESS will be appreciated. M E E T T H E P R E S S MR. SPIVAK: Our guest today on MEET THE PRESS is the new Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi. She is on her first official visit to this country since taking office. Mrs. Gandhi was the official hostess and close confidante of her father, Prime. Minister Nehru, during the seventeen years he served as India's leader. Today she is considered to be the world's most powerful woman. We will have the first question now from Pauline Frederick of NBC News. MISS FREDERICK: Prime Minister Gandhi, on starting your trip to the West you said that you hoped to get India's point of view better understood and you hoped also to learn something from the countries and great leaders you would meet. To what extent have you achieved these goals in the United States? MRS. GANDHI: I found an understanding even before I got here. In my talks with President Johnson, he showed great understanding and knowledge of the problems which existed in India, and I think I was able to fill in the details. The only other leader I have met so far is President de Gaulle. The talks with both of these great leaders were very useful and, I think, did serve the purpose which I had in mind. MISS FREDERICK: On March the third you were reported to have said in the Parliament in Delhi that you were deeply distressed at the exaggerated picture of starving India being portrayed to the world. Would you tell us if you still feel that way and, if so, how you could put the picture of India's hunger need in perspective? MRS. GANDHI: All pictures or words are relative. India has 1 known famine and starvation for many years. But today when we talk of famine it is not in ,the sense in which we knew these words before independence. There is an acute shortage of food in our country in specific scar~ity areas. Th!lre are no vec;>ple dying of starvation. With the friendly help which yve are g~tt~ng, the import of food grains, we hope to avert fannne, but It IS a danger if we don't get the help. And there is also the danger not perhaps of actual famine but of malnutrition which can be also critical to our nation's progress. MISS FREDERICK: President Johnson has spoken to Dutch Foreign Minister Luns about the possibilit! of calling an int~r­ national conference to develop and. coordmate greater famme relief for India. Did the President talk with you about such a conference, and if so, are there plans for it? MRS. GANDHI: No, he did not mention this to me though he did mention that he would like other countries to help in this matter. . MISS FREDERICK: Prime Minister Gandhi, can India's food problem be handled effectively without sharp control of the population? MRS. GANDHI: Well, we are doing-we have plans for the control of the population, but naturally this is something which will take a little time. MISS FREDERICK: You have said that India is evolving pur- poseful arid meaningful national concensus based upon principles of ·secularism and democratic socialism. Have you · found any hesitancy about extending help to India, either in contributions or through private investment, in view of India's determination to become a democratic socialist state? MRS. GANDHI: I don't think the hesitations are because of the word "socialism." The hesitations are because private enter- prise feels that perhaps the conditions for investment are not as they would like them to be. But I think this is due to a mis- conception. We· are encouraging private investment and trying to create very suitable conditions for it. MISS FREDERICK: To what extent would private investment be free to carry out its programs in India? MRS. GANDHI: It is free to a large extent. We allow them all the facilities which they need, practically. Naturally, this has to be conditioned by national interest. MR. POTTER: Mrs. Gandhi, it has been suggested that the Congress Party bosses in India selected you because you are your father's daughter and you bear the name "Gandhi," which was made famous by Mahatma Gandhi, in order to win the elections coming up early next year. Do you have any plans for early retirement thereafter? MRS. GANDHI: I have no plans at the moment except to get on with the job. MR. POTTER: I am not going to ask you· how India takes to . ' 2 .. i t petticoat rule, but aren't you rather young by Indian standards to be running that great country? . . MRS. GANDHI: Youth is a matter of which Side you look at it from. I mean if you ask a twenty-year-old, forty-seven, fort~­ eight seems quite old .. Of ~our~e,. if you ask someone who IS eight~' years old, he will thmk I~ IS young. I think in experience I am qmte old by now. MR. POTTER: It has been reported that Krishna.Menon, who used to see a good deal of your father, now walks m your gar- den but doesn't get inside to talk to you. Would you tell us the state of your relations with Mr. Menon? . MRS. GANDHI: They are exactly as they were .before, which is cordial. I don't know how often he has walked m t!te ga:r:den without seeing me. I think I have met him a couple of times smce I have become Prime Minister. MR. POTTER: He is a member of Parliament. Did he support your candidacy for the Prime Ministership? MRS GANDHI: He did at the end, yes. MR imiTTER · Mrs. Gandhi, I think you said in Washington that you had som~ understanding of the Ameri.can aims. in Viet Nam. Would you go a little further and t.ell us If yo~ th~nk that India, itself also has something at stake m the warm VIetNam in terms of the freedom of democratic countries? MRS. GANDHI: I don't think that I said exactly ~hat, ¥r. Britter. What I had said was that the A~eric.ans a:r:e m a diffi- cult situation, and I can understand their d!fficulties, no":. I have expressed my views on Viet N am many times, and _I believe that the best way of guarding the fre~dom of that a;rea IS by the countries being strengthened econonncally and socially and en- abling them to progress, so that the people have a greater sense of security within their countries. MR. BRITTER: You speak of being strength~~ed .economically and socially. What about being strengthened militarily? If ,I may put it in rather alarmist terms, can you see a set of cuc~m­ stances in which India might have to make co~mon cau~ with, say, Russia and the lJnit~d Stat~s, to defend Itself agamst ~ aggressive China, which IS seekmg to overrun not only India but the other countries of South Asia? MRS. GANDHI: At the moment that is a very h~pothetica] question. I don't think that either Russia or China will want to rush into a war for sometime. . MR. BRITTER: China has already attacked India and may do . ., so agam. . MRS. GANDHI: That is so, and she still cont~nues to a~opt a most menacing attitude on our no~hern fr~:m~Ier .. Also m her protest notes, she is quite threatemng. But It IS difficult to say whether she will actually launch a large-scale attack, MR. BRITTER: Now, China has the bomb. India has the ca- pacity to make the bomb. Can you foresee a set of circumstances 3 in which you would have to be obliged to defend yourself by taking to nuclear armaments? MRS. GANDHI: It will take a long time for China to have enough bombs, I think, to make a difference. And the position is the same with India. We may have the capacity, but the financial burden of it is a very large one, and from the very practical point of view, I don't really see what good it will do us. MR. HARRISON: Prime Minister Gandhi, something that is not hypothetical in the form of a Chinese problem in your area is that Pakistan has recently acquired military aid from Com- munist China in what appear to be rather substantial quantities. We are told that there may be two squadrons of airplanes and fifty to one hundred tanks. Do you think that you are in danger of having a Chinese satellite at your doorstep? MRS. GANDHI: It is true that we are rather alarmed at the fact that Pakistan does seem to be coming closer to China and is taking arms aid from China. It is a threat to India. Perhaps you will remember that we were against military aid to Pakistan earlier, also, beacuse we feared just this, that such aid might be used against India. MR. HARRISON: However, now it is said in the United States that if we don't continue to give Pakistan at least some military aid, Pakistan will be compelled to go to China for an expanded military aid program. What would you like to see the United States do to offset this? MRS. GANDHI: The more aid Pakistan gets, the greater the danger of her getting involved in a war with us, and I don't think that such a war can do good to either Pakistan or India or con- tribute to peace and stability in that area. MR. HARRISON: Then, you would just like the United States to continue withholding military aid to Pakistan, as it has since the suspension of military aid during the war? MRS. GANDHI: I think that may be better, yes. MR. SPIVAK: Prime Minister Gandhi, may I ask you a ques- tion: There has been increasing debate in this country about how best to deal with Communists and China and their aggression. From India's experience, would you say that Chinese aggres- sion can effectively be handled by the hand of friendship and by recognition? MRS. GANDHI: Recognition perhaps may-I don't know if it will help, but, anyway, it may bring China more within-in a situation where it is easier to talk to her. China, as I have men- tioned-! don't think she is going to get herself involved in a war, straight off. I think her major interest is to try to get as many other countries involved as can happen, so that she has time in the meanwhile to strengthen herself from the inside. MR. SPIVAK: You have recognized Communist China, I be- 4 Iieve, for some time, and you have talked with her and you have dealt with her. What good has it done you? MRS. GANDHI: Not much, I am sorry to say. MISS FREDERICK: Madame Prime Minister, you said a mo- ment ago as I understood it, the more Chinese aid to Pakistan, the greater the danger of war with India. Isn't the real possibility of war with India-doesn't it come from the Kashmir dispute, and wouldn't settlement of the Kash- mir dispute help to eliminate that cause of war regardless of what arms Pakistan has? MRS. GANDHI: Kashmir we think is a symptom rather than the cause of the disease. As far as arms go, obviously if Pakistan doesn't have the arms, she can't launch into a military venture. It is only if she has the capacity to fight that she can think of such a thing. MISS FREDERICK: But do you see any possibility of working out a settlement on Kashmir with Pakistan? MRS. GANDHI: We have always felt that the first step to take is more friendly relations, more economic cooperation, cul- tural, social and so on, and it is only when you have this basis of friendship and understanding that you can deal with as com- plicated a question as Kashmir. MISS FREDERICK: What about carrying out the Security Council's recommendation for a plebiscite in the area? MRS. GANDHI: If you go back to that resolution, you will find that the first part of it wBs observance of the cease-fire, withdrawal of Pakistani troops, and only after that, was there the plebiscite, and the first two have not yet been observed yet by Pakistan. MISS FREDERICK: Does this mean then that India refuses to recognize the Security Council's resolution because une of the parties hasn't lived up to the provisions of it? MRS. GANDHI: No, it is not that we don't recognize it, but you can't take the third step before you have taken the first two. MISS FREDERICK: Are any serious efforts being made to take the first two steps? MRS. GANDHI: That is for the Security Council to do. MR. POTTER: Madame Gandhi, you have been sympathetic about our dilemma in Viet Nam while questioning our original involvement, there. Do you see any prospect of an alliance among Asian nations, perhaps, including Japan, that could contain Chinese expansionism without our help? MRS. GANDHI: I don't really think that such a thing is pos- sible just now. The Chinese desire is to spread her influence, and she can do this not merely by a military adventure but by many other means, as she has been trying in the past. I think the best way for that is to encourage the nationalist movements in all the countries around China. MR. POTI'ER: We note in this morning's paper that the Mos- 5 cow regime is relaxing its destalinization. Do you think that perhaps enhances the prospect of a heal in the rift between Russia and Red China? MRS. GANDHI: Not at this moment, no. MR. POTTER: Do you anticipate they might come together again at some future time? MRS. GANDHI: Not in the near future. MR. BRITTER: Mrs. Gandhi, would you agree that your pres- ent visit to the United States and the help you are getting from Washington does amount in effect to a turning point in your country's history, because what it means is that the United States is now committed to helping you to tackle these problems, which would otherwise be insurmountable, and that therefore the United States has really committed itself to helping India to achieve its destiny? If that is so, what would be your reaction, your response to such an interpretation? MRS. GANDHI: I think that all the countries which have re- sources should help those which don't have, because only that way can you make the world a better place for everybody to live in. MR. BRITTER: But isn't this a very remarkable gesture which Mr. Johnson has made to your country? Very generous, I mean to say? MRS. GANDHI: It is indeed. It is generous, it is bold, and I think it is in the right direction. MR. BRITTER: Do you think India will be able to respond by, say, being less non-aligned than it has been in the past? More friendly with the United States? MRS. GANDHI: I think we have been very friendly with the United States, and I don't think it would help the United States if we were regarded, say, as a satellite or as a follower. I think we would be much more helpful to the United States if we remain -not only remain but are known as independent~thinking. MR. HARRISON: Does that concern, to have it appear that you are independent, extend to our economic aid relations and the flow of American private capital to India? You said earlier that you welcomed private capital but it had to be consistent with the national interest. Right now one of our big oil companies is negotiating for a fertilizer plant in India. You need fertilizer, and yet the President of your party, Mr. Kamaraj, has said that this deal would be atrocious and unacceptable. Do you agree with him? MRS. GANDHI: Not entirely. We have accepted this fertilizer agreement, because we consider that it is necessary for our country to have fertilizer in as large a quantity and as soon as possible. MR. HARRISON: Why do you think there is so much suspicion 6 in a country such as India, of American private or other foreign private capital? MRS. GANDHI: You know our history, Mr. Harrison, and I think you can well imagine that a country which has been ex- ploited economically from outside will always be very wary of any such thing happening again. MR. HARRISON: Just how much scope is there, then, for the influx of massive foreign private capital as a contribution to India's development? MRS. GANDHI: There is plenty of scope within that. MR. SPIVAK: Prime Minister Gandhi, are there any steps which you think the United States can take unilaterally towards a peace in Viet Nam? MRS. GANDHI: We appreciated President Johnson's stoppage of the bombing, and I think that could have led to the next step, and we were very distressed and concerned that it did not. I can only say that perhaps if it had been extended, some new possibility might have arisen. MR. SPIVAK: Would you be in favor of another stoppage? MRS. GANDHI: I would, yes. · MISS FREDERICK: Madame Prime Minister, you have said !hat. one way f:o try to contain the. spread of Chinese expansion- Ism IS to have mdependent, economically and politically independ- ent states in Asia. Would you include North Viet Nam in that group? · MRS. GANDHI: I would, yes. MISS FREDERICK: Do you think the bombing of North Viet Nam is helping to undermine the stability of North Viet Nam so that it might not be able to be that barrier to Chinese expan- sionism? M~S. G;ANDHI: I don't know ~bout affecting the stability, but certainly It may create greater fnendship for China. I don't think tha:t the people of North Vietnam are basically friendly to the Chmese bE_lcau~e they have su~ered in that area in the past. But nat.urally If thmgs happen which ~e them less friendly to the Umted States or the other countries, then there is that much more danger of Chinese influence. . MR: BRITTER: Mrs. Gandhi, I think during the recent riots m Ind!a y~u and some of ~our government officials said that they were mspired-the ones m West Bengal and the ones in the southern state of Kerala-by Communist Chinese influence. Does that mean that you believe there is a sizeable fifth column of Chinese-inclined Communists in your country and is Peking more likely to succeed by subversion than by out;ight attack? ~RS. GAN~HI: :t:'lo, Mr. ~ritter, I don't think this had any- thmg to do With Chma. It did have to do with our Indian Com- munist Party. This, as you know, is pre-election year in India and in such a year there is a tendency of opposition parties u; 7 try and exploit any issue. And the shortage of food is an issue which is exploitable at any time. MR. BRITI'ER: In other words, there is no large fifth column of communist Peking-- MRS. GANDHI: I wouldn't call it a fifth column. There are pockets where we have Communists. There is a district in Bengal; ther·e is Kerala. They are not large areas, but there are areas where they have influence and where they can arrange these big demonstrations. MR. HARRISON: Prime Minister Gandhi, when you arrived at the White House, you said in your prepared statement that you felt that India and the United States should not take each other for granted and let their relations drift. What did you mean by that? In what way have our relations been drifting and what are some of the misunderstandings that you must have had in your mind when you said that? MRS. GANDHI: I was thinking more of the future than of the past, Mr. Harrison. MR. HARRISON: Looking back to the past, did the war pro- duce very deep problems between India and the United States in terms of our involvement with Pakistan? MRS. GANDHI: In the public mind there was a certain amount of disturbance because of American arms, but I don't think that friendship with America suffered. MR. POTTER: Madam Gandhi, you said in your National Press Club speech the other day that you would like to see a modest increase in aid-India consortium aid to India, including that from our own country. Would you be willing to have the World Bank, which sort of sponsors this program, make a ceiling on arms expenditures by India and Pakistan a condition for further extension of aid to both countries? MRS. GANDHI: I am not happy about any conditions. MR. POTTER: You used to be noted for nonviolence, and yet vou have bad numerous recent riots in which there bas been a good deal of violence. Have you exported all of your nonviolence to our civil rights workers, here? MRS. GANDHI: I hope not. We have-a certain amount of violence that is always present in all countries, and whatever high ideals or principles we might have, unfortunately, man cannot always live up to them. MR. SPIVAK: Prime Minister Gandhi, India is for the admis- sion of Communist China to the United Nations. What is your position on what to do about Taiwan, if Communist China is admitted? MRS. GANDHI: Our position has been that there should be only one China. MR. SPIVAK: That means that you would put Taiwan out of the United Nations? MRS. GANDHI: This will have to be worked out. 8 MISS FREDERICK: Mrs. Gandhi, what do you believe are the chances of Communist China coming into the war in Viet Nam? Under what conditions would this come about? MRS. GANDHI: I don't think that China will come in, unless something very drastic happens. She may, of course, want to involve perhaps the Soviet Union more deeply into the fighting. MR. SPIVAK: We have about a minute. Mr. Britter. MR. BRITTER: Mrs. Gandhi, do you feel that the signing of this Tashkent Declaration is a turning point too because Russia is now directly concerned with preserving peace between India and Pakistan and is taking a positive role in the affairs of your subcontinent? MRS. GANDHI: The Tashkent agreement is like the opening of a door, an opening of new opportunities for India and Pakistan to get together, and perhaps having the Soviet Union also in- volved may help, but this depends very much on the attitudes of the two countries. India on her part will do everything possible to implement the declaration. MR. POTTER: Mrs. Gandhi, the spirit of Tashkent seems to be evaporating, if you can judge by the statements coming out of Pakistan and India. Do you have any plans to revive it by perhaps visiting with President Ayub? MRS. GANDHI: I would certainly like to meet President Ayub. I don't think it is evaporating as far as we are concerned. We have not made any such statements, but it is true that state- ments have been made in Pakistan. This may be due to the visit of the Chinese leaders, there. MR. SPIVAK: I am sorry to interrupt, but our time is up. Thank you Prime Minister Gandhi, for being with us today on MEET THE PRESS. 9 :Yk?'}({)~el MEET THE PRESS as broadcast nationwide by the National Broadcasting Com- pany, Inc., are printed and made available to the public to further interest in impartial discussions of questions affect- ing the public welfare. Transcripts may be obtained by send- ing a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ten cents for each copy to: ~ gJ~ ""-a-.till, ~ !'J. cc. ,t()()l.l (~?~c&.., k.) MEET THE PRESS is telecast every Sunday over the NBC Television Net- work. This program originated from the NBC Studios in New York City. Television Broadcast 1 :00 P.M. EST Radio Broadcast 6:30 P.M. EST 17~17